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#Post#: 107600--------------------------------------------------
Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow
box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: ManicGTI
Date: January 27, 2026, 4:54 pm
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Hello all!
My wife has received a PCN from Kingston Council for: 31J /
Entering and Stopping in a box Junction when prohibited (camera
enforcement)
From what I gather this is a VERY common location (Kingston Road
yellow boxes, many locals pissed off!), she pulled out of side
road into the box and stopped immediately, leaving side turning
totally clear for other vehicles.
Any advice on appealing this would be super appreciated as it
feels pretty harsh, we received on 15/01 so I think I have to
respond tomorrow otherwise the fine goes up!
Google Maps location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uHS9bn8zFoQPGPhp9
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uHS9bn8zFoQPGPhp9
PCN:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/EDH5YsJ
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/EDH5YsJ
Video from Kingston website:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/TSZhN4y
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/TSZhN4y
Thank you,
#Post#: 107605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: MrChips
Date: January 27, 2026, 5:36 pm
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I think this is challengeable:
1) The PCN states they may increase the penalty to £240 if you
do not pay before 28 days beginning with date PCN was served.
However the law says the PCN must state that this may happen 28
days from the date of the notice (not date of service).
2) The part of the box junction stopped in isn't part of the
junction with the side road.
3) Notwithstanding point 2) the video stops only around 5
seconds after the vehicle in front becomes stationary. It's
quite a long box junction (about 20 yards) so who is to say your
vehicle had to stop due to stationary vehicles. It could have
started moving across at a slowish pace (5mph say) and had a
clear exit when it got there. 20 yards at 5mph would take over 8
seconds.
#Post#: 107612--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 27, 2026, 6:34 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Any advice on appealing this would be super appreciated as it
feels pretty harsh, we received on 15/01 so I think I have to
respond tomorrow otherwise the fine goes up!
--- End Quote ---
1. It is a Penalty Charge. Fines are for criminal offences
2. The charge is discounted for early payment, basically to get
the money in. If you pay it it means you're saying "Sorry guv,
it's a fair cop, here's the money".
Looking at the video, it is as plain as a pikestaff, that the
YBJ is excessively long, and this on its own is sufficient to
win at London Tribunals. Why so ? Well the law is that a YBJ
must be installed at the junction of two or more roads, but here
the YBJ starts several metres before the actual junction and
that is the part you stopped in. So no contravention occurred.
Many appeals have been won on this basis. Having said that, are
you prepared to stand your ground and risk the extra £80 if you
take the matter to London Tribunals, the only place where you
will receive a reasonably fair consideration of your case. The
council get the money if they refuse representations so refuse
virtally all of them. PCN penalty income makes millions per year
for London councils, so never, ever, think they will look at
your representations dispassionately.
If you just pay up now you will be joining what we call the
"Mugged Club".
#Post#: 107684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 28, 2026, 7:34 am
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Do not pay this and I will represent you free.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/democracy-in-action/
#Post#: 107800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: ManicGTI
Date: January 28, 2026, 5:19 pm
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Thanks all, responses much appreciated.
Seems like its worth fighting, just on principle as much as
anything else! Any suggestions I what I need to do immediately
as the 14 day cutoff I think is tomorrow (notice date was 15/01)
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Do not pay this and I will represent you free.
>
--- End Quote ---
PMed :)
#Post#: 108062--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 30, 2026, 12:51 pm
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Sorted.
1. The locus is too vague therefore the PCN is void.
2. The PCN omits mandatory information as the LLA and TFL Act
2003 provides at Part 2. 4(8 )(v) which relates to (iii)
thereby rendering the PCN unclear.
3. With regard to 1 and 2 above, I rely upon Hackney Drivers
High Court case as referenced in Mr Lane's decision of
2240084051.
4. Many adjudicators have found the box to be too large and
non-compliant and the council have not sought an appeal of any
of these decisions. The most recent one is: 2250346289. Indeed,
the vehicle even stopped well short of the vehicle in the said
case.
5. At a meeting on 22nd January 2026 held in New Malden, the
council refused to cease enforcement saying that this would have
financial implications. This is illegal and two traffic
personnel acted ultra vires.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.
#Post#: 113827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 20, 2026, 7:58 am
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Any update please?
#Post#: 128383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 20, 2026, 3:00 pm
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2260139859 Won. ;D
Vague locus (now corrected due to my interjection at the January
meeting) and size of the junction. This is useful.
The junction was disproportionately large.
Enforcement was determined by financial considerations.
The penalty charge merely describes the location as ‘Kingston
Road’. It does not adequately define the location of the alleged
contravention. The motorist is entitled to certainty and the PCN
needs to identify the junction where it is alleged that a
contravention occurred.
HTML http://www.ftla.uk/news-press-articles/that-kingston-box-junction/msg128332/#msg128332
#Post#: 128386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a
yellow box, Kingston Road (another one!)
DIR By: ManicGTI
Date: August 20, 2026, 3:21 pm
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Thank you for your efforts on this PCN Hippocrates (and nice to
speak to you over the last few months as it progressed). The
tribunal went very smoothly with your input and feels like a
fair result.
It felt like the adjudicator was happy to rule on the two
reasons given (vagueness of PCN location and essentially the car
stopping in an area that shouldn't be determined as 'the box',
ie box too big) and didn't feel the need to to discuss the
others.
8)
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