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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 107302--------------------------------------------------
Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re speeding ?
DIR By: Grittery
Date: January 25, 2026, 8:55 am
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Hi I hope someone is happy and able to advise
I have received a Notice of Intended Prosecution from Met Police
(NIP) Regarding alleged speeding offence 24MPH in 20MPH zone.
Online they have included two photos of my car, at two different
points on the camera speeding lines but (as far as I can tell)
)nothing on the photos indicates my speed? Shouldn't there be a
speed timer? The traffic alongside is static cars are ahead of
me and behind.. I'm puzzled, are these two photos enough to
prove/accuse me of speeding? Or do the CPS produce more evidence
at some point?
Have attached photos .. am I missing a crucial detail?
HTML https://ibb.co/GvJkYBD6
HTML https://ibb.co/rKkVJjXh
HTML https://ibb.co/wFCJH2qm
They have also included this Calibration cert .. I thought
might help but leaves me none the wiser. It appears to be
'proof' that the camera was calibrated? As the road was only
recently changed from 30 to 20 mph I am pretty sure they will
have checked (calibrated)the cameras then but does this
Calibration Cert prove that?
I'm required to send the NIP back... have just filled it in but
before returning wanted to ask about the photos because I'm
still not convinced that I was speeding.
I'm interested to find out how the process works, primarily How
these photos alone prove that I was speeding? Also be good to
understand what happens next? I have looked online and it seems
likely the option is either a speed awareness course (if
eligible) and fine OR points and a fine.. no idea how much the
fines or how they will decide or let me know?
Thanks for any useful advice or experience you can share
#Post#: 107308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 25, 2026, 10:48 am
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Buckle up, you're about to learn something that will blow your
mind, and dispel a very common misconception. Or you mind might
not be blown, and you might be utterly underwhelmed. However you
indicated to desire to learn and understand, so that's a good
start.
Most people think that "begging the question" means exposing
another more immediate question (or somesuch). What it actually
means is relying on an undetermined or false premise as if it
were beyond dispute in order to support an equally flawed
ultimate premise.
The photos, *as disclosed*, prove approximately two thirds of
f*ck all. For reasons we are not privy to, the SCP have taken it
upon themselves to crop the data blocks from the photos before
sending the remainder to you. The data blocks will contain the
record of the approved device, which absent any evidence to the
contrary, will be sufficient to prove the speed. Typically the
primary speed reading is generated from a doppler radar system,
and the second photo taken a known to the SCP and anyone who
has the full evidential photos will be to enable the reading to
be corroborated based on your average speed by dividing the
distance travelled between the photos (they will also know the
distance between the dragon's teeth) by the time interval.
You are not entitled to see any of the evidence against you
unless and until to reject any and all out of court disposals,
and they instigate court proceedings against you. Some forces
don't even send photos at this stage as a matter of course, or
at all.
You might think that this is unfair, particularly as they have
sent you what are essentially the evidential photos with [most
of] the evidential bits removed. We are here to advise you
regarding the law, not to listen to posters vent about things
that we have no control over.
The prosecution do not need to prove to you that you were
speeding, they merely need to be able to prove to the
satisfaction of the court that you were. If it gets that far,
you will get to see the same evidence that the court does, but
the relatively inexpensive disposals will be long gone by then.
For 24 in a 20, you should expect to be offered a speed
awareness course (which costs about the same as a fixed penalty)
if you have not taken such a course for an offence committed
within the 3 years prior to this one. And/or you should expect
to be offered a fixed penalty (3 points and £100 penalty). The
police are quite keen on offering courses, as they get a £35
commission for introducing the customer, and the customers
mostly manage to bite their tongues as their primary concern is
avoiding the points.
If you ignore/decline the out of court disposal offers, and
plead guilty upon receiving the SJPN bundle (usually containing
the evidence they would be seeking to rely on), you would expect
the same 3 points, a fine based on the magistrates' sentencing
guidelines (with 1/3 discount for an early guilty plea) (link in
the "READ THIS FIRST" sticky at the top of the speeding forum),
a 40% surcharge on that fine and ~£95 prosecution costs.
If it went to trial, and you lost, you would lose the 1/3
discount off the fine and surcharge, and face prosecution costs
of ~£650.
Obviously, if you went to trial and won, there would be no fine,
no points, no surcharge and no prosecution costs (and you could
probably claim your bus fare).
N.B. The above is all based on the assumption that you name
yourself as the driver. Failure to do so is a separate and more
serious/expensive offence.
Perhaps the most relevant attachment was the calibration
certificate - not because being out of date would have helped
(it wouldn't), but it shows that it was a RedSpeed camera, not a
Gatso - off the top of my head the Gatso BV 24 +AUS is the only
approved speed camera whose approval excludes use in limits
below 30mph. However, the pattern of the dragon's teeth is wrong
for a gatso (or at least highly unusual).
#Post#: 107382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: Mayhem007
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:51 am
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The system stated is Speedcurb, not Redspeed. Don't know if
there is difference.
The dragons teeth do seam a bit strange for the speedcurb.
SpeedCurb (Speed Enforcement): Three sensors are buried in the
road surface, the sensors detect the presence of a vehicle and
initiate the Redspeed system. The system takes three
measurements from all three sensors to calculate and determine
the speed at which a vehicle is travelling.
The photos do not show the 3 lines
#Post#: 107386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 26, 2026, 7:05 am
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RedSpeed International makes the SpeedCurb camera. And the
RedGuard red light camera. And the RedSpeed combined red light
and speed camera (basically the RedGuard and SpeedCurb in the
same housing).
#Post#: 107397--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: BertB
Date: January 26, 2026, 8:40 am
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Those dragons teeth have been repainted as well.
If you check the Streetview for 2021, you can see where the
sensors are.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/zx2xqK3AnEdAXfmdA
#Post#: 107421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: Mayhem007
Date: January 26, 2026, 10:49 am
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Also the 20mph has been added since that street view.
So the Speedcurb is a singularity system. And there are 3 piezo
sensors in the road, which trigger 3 photos of the camera
[apparently].
Presumably the road sensors are the primary source of speed,
with the secondary corroboration of the lines. My understanding
is that the Gatso is not approved or of great accuracy below
30mph.
Interesting as the OP has showed that there is no data of speed
on the supplied photos. One would expect that the primary
detection of speed from the piezo sensors would be divulged,
regardless if it was not a requirement of evedential evidence to
the alleged offence.
#Post#: 107620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: Grittery
Date: January 28, 2026, 2:15 am
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Hi Thanks all for responding, Andy you have clearly clarified
the pros and cons of attempting a not guilty plea, it’s risky in
essence their word against mine.. and from what I now
understand it would seem they do have more evidence re my
speed, timings, dragons teeth but have chosen not to share them
with me .. and this is perfectly within their rights? So if I
were to plead not guilty they could then produce further proof ?
Then the costs to me would be far higher and include points?
The discussion re camera brand and purpose left me a bit
confused , I am assuming as the road has, within last couple of
months been changed from 30 to 20, that the road markings and
cameras have been matched and are up to date?
But again the calibration cert they included doesn’t tell me
much . Tbh it feels like all the evidence they have shared with
me only proves that I was there in my car… the date of alleged
offence does correspond with a journey I did on that date.
So today I am posting back my CIP and I’m also going to email
them to ask if they have any more detailed pictures which
include times etc .. if any response I’ll share , but in all
likelihood I shall, albeit disgruntled , do the speed awareness
course and pay the fine
Thanks all
#Post#: 107622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 28, 2026, 2:43 am
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--- Quote ---
> ...and this is perfectly within their rights?
--- End Quote ---
Yes. You are not entitled to any evidence whatsoever at this
stage. All they need send is the NIP and the request for
driver’s details. Anything else you have has been provided as a
courtesy only.
--- Quote ---
> So if I were to plead not guilty they could then produce
further proof ? Then the costs to me would be far higher and
include points?
--- End Quote ---
If you are prosecuted in court you will be served with the
evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you. This may
or may not include material you have received so far.
If you are convicted following a trial you will lose the one
third discount you will be given off any fine; prosecution costs
will be around £650 (considerably more if the police have to
enlist an expert to counter your arguments) instead of £90. If
your weekly income is £500, failure following a trial will cost
you an additional £700 or more. Three points will be the outcome
in either event.
#Post#: 108631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: sample-tripod-clip
Date: February 3, 2026, 7:45 pm
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--- Quote from: Grittery link ---
> in essence their word against mine..
>
--- End Quote ---
To put it like that suggests there is some equivalence in your
word when compared to theirs.
What it really is is your word vs the evidence produced by
calibrated, type approved, automatic unattended speedmeter (the
technical term for a speed camera) whose evidence has been
recovered and processed in accordance with set procedures by
trained staff.
The reason they give you the photos is to help you identify the
driver but also to prompt you to understanding its ‘real’ not
just some abstract mail out. I guess the same goes for
calibration certificates - some people have ‘heard’ that they
can get off if there is a calibration issue so the police were
probably finding they were fielding numerous phone calls
everyday about this.
I suspect the reason they do not provide speed (some forces do)
on the combined NIP/S172 notice is around data protection
legislation. If you were the keeper but not the driver, why do
you need to know how fast your wife or your employee was
driving? They only need to let you know they suspect an offence
has occurred, not the likelihood they have good enough evidence
to be convicted at this stage!
#Post#: 108657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Query re NIP - Calibration Certificate and Photos re
speeding ?
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: February 4, 2026, 3:34 am
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Double post
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