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#Post#: 107180--------------------------------------------------
Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: Salsa_temps
Date: January 24, 2026, 5:16 am
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Hi, noobie here, I'm kicking myself. I live locally - I went
from South Harrow to Greenford a couple of times in a day, we
have a new car so I didn't go round the back roads and instead I
went along Whitton Avenue West then turned right into Malden
Avenue - twice in one day - and now I have received 2 PCNs.
Coming up to the junction:
- there's a 20mph sign, with a no right turn sign,
- then there's zebra crossing,
- then there is a no right turn sign between the zebra crossing
and the turning
- immediately before the turning, there is no visible no entry
sign or no right turn sign
- and then, turning into Malden Ave there's a bus stop, and
seven restriction signs.
[p]I have to say that I was concentrating on the zebra crossing
and keeping my speed down to 20mph I could see the restriction
signs .. what I didn't notice was the no right turn signs!![/p]
My viewpoint was that, because I didn't see the signs twice in
one day, even though they're visible, the signs are not
prominent enough when you're having to drive at 20mph (which
takes a lot of concentration on the speedo!) it's too easy to
miss.
here's the link to google maps, approaching the junction
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5529339,-0.3434335,3a,75y,79.42h,78.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1BvfwX4483ZrbN9PJQXwwA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D11.973650349026002%26panoid%3D1BvfwX4483ZrbN9PJQXwwA%26yaw%3D79.41980328631463!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDEyMS4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA2N0gBUAM%3D
Here's a link to google maps, immediately before the junction,
where there isn't a no right turn sign
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5530439,-0.3428724,3a,75y,101.91h,84.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sug-NMt5PPi4ptWOWNVuZhQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D5.662909931850336%26panoid%3Dug-NMt5PPi4ptWOWNVuZhQ%26yaw%3D101.90643835192597!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDEyMS4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA2N0gBUAM%3D
on google maps, as you actually get to the junction, a no right
turn is not present.
Does anyone else have any thoughts?
#Post#: 107181--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: Salsa_temps
Date: January 24, 2026, 5:25 am
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OK, I've drafted an appeal, I will appeal both separately
Re: PCNs AO—-- and [AO—---]
Vehicle registration: —-----
Date/time: 19/01/2026 hhmmss and hhmmss
Location: Whitton Avenue West / Malden Avenue, Greenford
Dear Sir/Madam,
I make representations against the above PCN(s) on the ground
that the alleged contravention did not occur (failure to comply
with an indication on a sign / no contravention of the relevant
Order).
1) The evidence provided does not show the restriction being
conveyed
I have viewed the footage made available. It shows my vehicle
completing a right turn, but it does not show any “No right
turn” sign (or any road marking) from the driver’s approach at
the point a driver must decide whether the manoeuvre is
permitted.
If you intend to rely on signage to prove the contravention,
please provide:
the full CCTV record for each PCN (not a shortened clip), and
any still images taken from the CCTV that show the relevant
sign(s) and their visibility from the approach used.
On the evidence currently supplied, the authority has not
demonstrated that the restriction was adequately conveyed to the
motorist at the time of the alleged contravention.
2) The junction signing is not positioned or presented to give
clear notice at the decision point
From the approach along Whitton Avenue West, the final approach
to the turn includes a 20 mph limit and a zebra crossing. Those
features properly demand heightened attention to speed
management and pedestrians. In that setting, the prohibition
needs to be unmistakable at the point of commitment.
My understanding of the layout is:
prohibition signage appears before the zebra crossing and again
between the crossing and the turn, and
there is no clear prohibition sign immediately at/adjacent to
the junction mouth where the driver makes the final turning
decision.
If that is correct, the restriction is not being reinforced at
the point where it matters most, particularly given the
competing attention demands of the zebra crossing, bus stop and
speed limit compliance.
3) Sign clutter at the entry to Malden Avenue adds to ambiguity
At the entry to Malden Avenue there is a dense cluster of
restriction signage (including a width limit warning and
time-based restrictions with exemptions). This increases the
risk that a motorist reasonably reads the entry cluster as “the
relevant restrictions for this turning” rather than appreciating
that the manoeuvre itself is prohibited.
4) Discretion requested for the second PCN
Two PCNs have been issued for the same manoeuvre at the same
location on the same day. Even if you do not accept the points
above, it is not fair or proportionate to issue two penalties
before the first PCN could have alerted the motorist and enabled
a change of behaviour. I ask you to exercise discretion and
cancel at least the second PCN on this basis.
Evidence requested
To properly consider this matter, please provide:
the relevant Traffic Management Order extract creating the
prohibited right turn at this junction, and
the authority’s current signage plan and/or site photographs
showing the position of each “No right turn” sign and its
visibility from the approach taken.
For the reasons above, I request that the PCN(s) be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[Name]
[Address]
[Email / phone]
#Post#: 107193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 24, 2026, 6:51 am
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As per forum rules, please post the PCN, all sides with only
name and address redacted.
A quick look at GSV Oct 2025, shows a No Right Turn sign 38
metres away from the turn,
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/vnE8yrZni9QZvxWt6
and another one just past the Zebra crossing a few metres away
from the turn which is good enough.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/yewMFzwUf3Gicg8HA
So frankly, I don't see the basis for a robust appeal to London
Tribunals. The council will reject your reps as they always do,
although they might give way on the second PCN, but I doubt it.
Saying its 20 mph so your concentrating on things other than
looking for signs is the exact opposite of what an adjudicator
will think, as it is considered 20 mph gives one plenty of time
to look ahead for signs.
Were you using satnav, and just obeyed the instructions like an
automaton ?
#Post#: 107198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: Salsa_temps
Date: January 24, 2026, 7:25 am
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thank you [member=12]Incandescent[/member] I doubt if the pcn is
going to tell you anything that the person who posted the other
thread didn't say.
Point(s) taken - actually I find 20mph is very difficult to
maintain and no, I wasn't following satnav instructions. My
understanding was that 20mph zones were implemented primarily
for road safety, as part of the Mayor's "Vision Zero" strategy
to eliminate all deaths and serious injuries on London's roads
by 2041. So, that's my point, I was making sure that I wasn't a
danger to pedestrians. Perhaps I'll make it clearer in the
representations.
Yes, I realise it's a slim chance.
--- Quote ---
> The Council of the London Borough of Ealing believes that a
penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle
registration mark AB99CDE for the alleged traffic contravention
of 50JR - Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
> In Whitton Avenue West / Malden Avenue Greenford (U)
> On DATETIME
> The alleged contravention was recorded from a road side camera
at the time stated. The alleged contravention is supported by
recorded video footage. A penalty charge of £160.00 is payable
and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days
beginning with the date of this Notice.
> If the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of
14 days beginning with the date of this Notice, the amount of
the penalty charge will be reduced by £80.00. Please see
overleaf for details of how to pay. The person on whom this
Notice is served may be entitled to make representations under
paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities &
Transport for London Act 2003 using the form overleaf. The
grounds on which you may make representations are set out in the
form. If you fail to pay the penalty charge or make
representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning
with the date of service of this Notice, an increased charge of
£240.00 may be payable. We may send you a Charge Certificate
seeking payment of this increased amount. We may disregard any
representations received after the period of 28 days beginning
with the date of service of this Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 107250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 24, 2026, 12:00 pm
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Whilst I think you don't have a strong case for cancellation of
the PCNs, you do have the absolute right in law to take the
council all the way to London Tribunals. This means that you
must risk the full PCN penalty, there is no discount option
there.
#Post#: 107378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing Council, 50JR - Performing a no right turn twice in a
day, Malden Ave/Whitton Ave West Greenford
DIR By: Salsa_temps
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:41 am
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well, for what it's worth, I've posted 2x appeals similar to the
above and asked if they will give a 2 for one discount :)
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