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#Post#: 106405--------------------------------------------------
P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: January 18, 2026, 11:18 am
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Hi all,
My permit fell off my dash at some point during my last drive,
and I didnt I notice til days after I needed the car again. Went
downstairs to the underground car park to find 2 PCNs on my
dash. Unfair and ridiculous in my opinion as they know/have my
reg plate on the system and the bay is registered to me.
Is there anything I can do easily to get out of this?
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/bghCBJW5[/img]
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/bM1x3FHN[/img]
Img1
HTML https://ibb.co/bM1x3FHN
img2
HTML https://ibb.co/bghCBJW5
Thanks folks.
#Post#: 106406--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: jfollows Date: January 18, 2026, 11:27 am
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Yes.
What does your lease, or equivalent, say about this.
If it doesn’t say you have to display a “permit” then,
generally, you don’t.
#Post#: 106408--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: January 18, 2026, 11:35 am
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[quote author=jfollows link=topic=9551.msg106406#msg106406
date=1768757233]
Yes.
What does your lease, or equivalent, say about this.
If it doesn’t say you have to display a “permit” then,
generally, you don’t.
[/quote]
My tenancy agreement simply says:
"22 Parking
If you rent a specific car parking space or garage as part of
this tenancy, you must only park in that space and not
store, keep or park any boat, caravan or commercial vehicle on
it or on any shared car park."
Does this mean I can ignore the PCN? Or do I have to appeal
specifying the tenancy doesn't require me to?
#Post#: 106428--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: jfollows Date: January 18, 2026, 2:22 pm
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You have to appeal on the basis that your tenancy agreement does
not require you to display a permit and you need to require the
management company or equivalent to cancel it.
They won’t cancel and they won’t uphold your appeal but you have
started the process.
No court would uphold their case, so you have to go through the
process.
#Post#: 106429--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: jfollows Date: January 18, 2026, 2:35 pm
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See also
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/p4parking-penalty-failure-to-display-permit/msg65523/#msg65523
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/p4parking-southern-housing-private-estate-parking-pcns-after-sippi-transition-co/msg93463/#msg93463
#Post#: 106452--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: January 18, 2026, 5:29 pm
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[quote author=jfollows link=topic=9551.msg106429#msg106429
date=1768768555]
See also
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/p4parking-penalty-failure-to-display-permit/msg65523/#msg65523
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/p4parking-southern-housing-private-estate-parking-pcns-after-sippi-transition-co/msg93463/#msg93463
[/quote]
Thanks. I will use the template provided in the other thread you
linked.
Would it be possible to use the other appeals I have used before
based on the basis that I am the registered keeper and cannot be
held liable?
#Post#: 106556--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: January 19, 2026, 12:58 pm
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Can anyone give any insight to above query from me pls?
#Post#: 106975--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: DWMB2 Date: January 22, 2026, 10:41 am
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If you show us a draft of an appeal like that (written as the
keeper, not the driver) we can advise. Something along those
lines would be a good starting point.
#Post#: 107015--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: January 22, 2026, 3:27 pm
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[quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=9551.msg106975#msg106975
date=1769100116]
If you show us a draft of an appeal like that (written as the
keeper, not the driver) we can advise. Something along those
lines would be a good starting point.
[/quote]
Hi there -
Below is my draft attempt at appeaking the PCN at the current
stage (no NtK). I note that one of the PCNs also note that I was
parked for 1 minute which is not a reasonable observation
period. As you can probably tell, the use of AI was used to
draft the letter. What are your thoughts?
To the Appeals Department,
I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in question and the
lawful resident of the property where these Parking Charge
Notices (PCNs) were issued. I am challenging these charges on
the following grounds:
1. Primacy of Contract (The Lease) My right to park in this car
park is granted by my tenancy agreement (lease). My lease allows
for parking and contains no requirement to display a permit, nor
does it agree to pay penalties to a third party such as P4
Parking.
Under the legal principle of Primacy of Contract, the terms of
my lease take precedence over any signage you have placed on the
land. You cannot unilaterally alter the terms of my tenancy
agreement by putting up signs. As a third-party agent, your
contract is with the landowner, not with the residents who have
a pre-existing right to occupy the land.
I refer you to the binding judgment in Jopson v Homeguard
Services [2016] B9GF0A9E, where the Senior Circuit Judge
established that a parking management company cannot override a
tenant’s right to park by requiring a permit that is not
mentioned in the lease. The judge ruled that the parking
company’s signs were an offer to "visitors" or those without a
pre-existing right to be there, but were incapable of forming a
contract with a resident who already has a superior right to
park.
2. No Loss Suffered / No Trespass Since I have a right to park
via my lease, I am not trespassing. Furthermore, as the parking
is for residents, the landowner has suffered no financial loss
due to my vehicle being parked there.
3. Insufficient Observation Period. Regarding the PCN issued on
15/01/2026, your own evidence states the vehicle was observed
from 18:04 to 18:05. This is an observation period of one
minute. This is a violation of the British Parking Association
(BPA) Code of Practice (Section 13), which mandates a reasonable
grace period and observation time to allow a driver to read
signs or obtain a permit. One minute is manifestly unreasonable
and proves no proper parking management was taking place, only
predatory ticketing.
Conclusion As the lawful occupier with a primacy of contract
that does not require a permit, I am not bound by your signage.
I require you to cancel these PCNs immediately and remove my
personal data from your records. If you choose to reject this
appeal, I require a POPLA verification code. Be advised that at
POPLA, I will rigorously assert the Primacy of Contract
argument, provide my lease as evidence, and claim my full costs
for the time spent dealing with this unlawful harassment.
#Post#: 108271--------------------------------------------------
Re: P4 Parking PCN for not displaying permit
By: bailfyr Date: February 1, 2026, 9:06 am
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Hi all,
So after appealing both PCNs with similar appeals to my above
post - they requested my name and permit after which they
rejected my appeals and asking for a £20 reduced penalty per
PCN.
Shall I appeal to POPLA with the same? Their response is below:
Thank you for your correspondence received on 30/01/2026, which
has been passed for our attention and which
we have read with interest. We have reviewed the case and
considered the comments that you have made.
Further to and in response to your appeal, P4Parking have been
contracted by the landowners or agents thereof
to ensure that vehicles are only allowed to be parked on the
land with authority. This authority is dependent upon
the rules as laid down by the landowners or bodies acting on
behalf of such estate, land or development.
P4Parking have the authority to issue a Parking Charge to any
vehicle that is parked contrary to these regulations.
It is the responsibility of the person parking to demonstrate
the correct display of the relevant permit and or
adherence to the rules governing the parking of the vehicle(s)
within the grounds. The area where your vehicle
was issued a Parking Charge is subject to a policy requiring all
vehicles to park in accordance with the stated
parking terms. The specific breach you have been issued the
charge for is:
NO VALID PERMIT ON VISIBLE DISPLAY
Although we sympathise with your concerns, at the time of your
vehicle contravention and subsequent issuance
with a Parking Charge as the vehicle was in breach of the above
and therefore, was correctly charged under the
power given to us by the landowner. When parking on private
land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to
abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to
park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that
they abide by any clearly displayed conditions of parking.
With regards to your appeal for the Parking Charge issued and
having inspected all data available, which includes
your letter and contents of appeal, photographs taken at the
time of the Parking Charge issued by the warden and
all additional 3rd party information available to us, we must
make the following points very clearly.
It is the duty of the driver to read the signage placed on the
development. The signs on the development clearly
state "All vehicles parked within these private grounds and not
displaying an authorised parking permit or parked
outside of this development's parking regulations will be
charged via the issuance of a parking charge.
Enforcement may take place at any time."
No Z2384228
Having read your statement, it is the motorist responsibility to
read the warning notices on the development and
abide to the parking regulations and adhere to the rules
governing the parking of the vehicle(s) within the grounds.
Our patrol officer has produced photographic evidence confirming
that no valid parking permit was on visible
display at the time of the contravention. Please find the
pictorial evidence attached.
As per the terms of parking within the managed development, it
is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that a valid
permit is clearly displayed on the front windscreen or dashboard
of the vehicle at all times while parked. Failure to
do so renders the vehicle in contravention of the parking
regulations.
As you have provided permit evidence, on this occasion we have
applied a reduced charge of £20, valid if paid
within 14 days from the date of this notice.
The patrol officer has carried out his duties correctly as
instructed by the landowner. Motorists parking on private
land must comply with the advertised terms and conditions,
therefore the patrol officer had reasonable cause to
issue a Parking Charge on your vehicle.
Therefore the Parking Charge was issued correctly according to
the instructions set out by the landowners, please
see attached pictorial evidence below.
After careful consideration, we must advise you that your appeal
for this Parking Charge has been REJECTED.
We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge as it was
issued correctly. We have now extended the
discounted payment period by 14 days to allow you time to pay
the discounted settlement amount. Please now
make payment of £20 to reach us by 15/02/2026 or £100 to reach
us by 01/03/2026. We must advise you that
once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be
offered again. You have now reached the end of our
internal appeals procedure, you have the legal right to submit a
second appeal to POPLA. P4Parking cannot deal
with any subsequent appeal relating to this parking charge
notice.
Furthermore, it is our duty to inform you that if you should
choose to submit to POPLA (Parking on Private Land
Appeals), you will lose all the opportunities to pay the
discount rate. If you want to appeal, you must do so within
28 days of the date this notice of rejection has been sent.
If your appeal is refused then the full parking charge will be
due as the time for any early payment discount offered
by the operator will have passed. Do not pay the charge if you
are appealing. If your appeal is allowed you have
nothing to pay. If your appeal is refused, in order to avoid any
further action by the operator, you should then pay
the full parking charge within 28 days.
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