DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 105354--------------------------------------------------
[Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's the
sign?
DIR By: Thor
Date: January 10, 2026, 11:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This is somehow weird.
My partner followed her memory and didn't spot a no-turn traffic
sign in the dark. I mean, she followed her memory, because left
turn was allowed there for a long time until Wickes was sold to
Lidl a few years ago. Here is the layout in 2021:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/p6rMxxijT19Vzimj6
Today, however, vehicles leaving the Lidl car park aren't
supposed to turn left into Gordon Road:
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/zf6bVvo_xl.jpg
It may be because Gordon Road is blocked for vehicular traffic
further down, next to house no. 29; although it remains a
two-way road up to there.
But look at the placement of the no-left-turn sign! It's in
front, behind the crossing, not even on the road that it applies
to. The way I'm reading the traffic signs regulations and the
common sense, the sign should be placed before the crossing,
right where the prohibition starts, like here:
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/pjGPYDy_xl.png
Is a road marking alone enforceable, especially when much
smaller than the statutory dimensions and without an
accompanying traffic sign? Never mind that it's situated on
private land.
I appealed based on the above:
HTML https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mnPiUNlPHiKIqRdd_D1NFQJYCIin35P7
...and today we received a rejection notice:
HTML https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ONdV_Pj8Wc4SNJD3cJx1q-A0XavahMz1
Does it make sense to appeal to the adjudicator?
Grateful for any advice.
#Post#: 105359--------------------------------------------------
Re: [Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's
the sign?
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: January 11, 2026, 2:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Does it make sense to appeal to the adjudicator?
--- End Quote ---
Probably, but please post all sides of the PCN (redact pnly yr
name & address - leave all else in) do it can be checked for
errors.
Do you know where the advance warning sign to which their
rejection refers is situated?
Have you the video? It's not clear from their grainy photograph
if their sign is illuminated?
#Post#: 105362--------------------------------------------------
Re: [Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's
the sign?
DIR By: Thor
Date: January 11, 2026, 3:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> please post all sides of the PCN (redact pnly yr name &
address - leave all else in) do it can be checked for errors.
>
--- End Quote ---
All the four pages are there:
HTML https://drive.google.com/open?id=1esbVY50FPKqAwUEH6l1AtooUj9jPCwId
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Do you know where the advance warning sign to which their
rejection refers is situated?
>
--- End Quote ---
No other signs are there. Where the photographer is standing is
a private car park only, no road.
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Have you the video? It's not clear from their grainy
photograph if their sign is illuminated?
>
--- End Quote ---
Video is there, but the sign isn't visible:
HTML https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qaRlWoSq9KQ0YhdXnMcuZgBdSdTVfAH_
Sign is illuminated.
What I was trying to point to is the requirement that the sign
be placed "as close as possible to the point where the
restriction starts." – that being the point, passing which the
restriction comes into force. Whereas here, the driver even does
not pass the sign before getting on the crossing and turning -
the sign has been placed on the side of another road, in a
rather unexpected place for a driver who's arriving at a
crossing and looking left and right to turn safely.
#Post#: 105386--------------------------------------------------
Re: [Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's
the sign?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 11, 2026, 6:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The test of signage is "adequacy". Have a read here of
Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
#Post#: 105406--------------------------------------------------
Re: [Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's
the sign?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 11, 2026, 9:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I know this location very well. How do you know the sign was
illuminated? You should be putting them to strict proof it was
on the said day/evening.
I have a technical argument re the PCN as in my first link but
it's 60/40 in my favour at present unless, of course, I get my
own similar PCN. ;D
No point in arguing abut the TMO as that is for the High Court.
#Post#: 105576--------------------------------------------------
Re: [Kingston upon Thames] Took a prohibited turn. But where's
the sign?
DIR By: davidmcn
Date: January 12, 2026, 1:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Presumably that's also the only way into the car park, and
there's signage about the restriction which the driver ought to
have seen on their way in? I would think the sign on the
opposite side of the road is the normal extent of any reminder
you get on your way back out of private land (the roads
authority can't realistically stick additional signs inside the
private land). Whether it's sufficient for a penalty, I don't
know.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1