DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 105112--------------------------------------------------
PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 8, 2026, 12:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
i So I was given a PCN for allegedly parking in suspending
parking for gully works.
The parking bay outside of 1, 3, 5 and 10, 30 and so on was
suspend, and this was the picture evidence they gave.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/xqcDTs59/evidence.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/xqcDTs59
I edited the pic with the number 5 and 7 (otherwise the picture
doesnt really show which numbers they are). I had parked outside
7 from what i could see when i received the pcn as well as in
the picture
So I submitted a challenge saying: The suspension applied to the
bay outside numbers 1, 3, and 5, but my vehicle was parked
outside number 7. There are no bay markings or physical
boundaries indicating that my position fell within the suspended
area. The council’s own photographs do not show any house
numbers or identifiable reference points that could establish my
vehicle’s location relative to the suspension. The images are
taken from an angle and do not prove that my vehicle was wholly
or partly within the suspended bay.
But i recieved a pdf in my email today saying "I have noted your
comments and can confirm that the vehicle was parked and
ticketed outside number 5, but protruding onto number 7." They
also attached a 'google picture' (im not sure what that means...
) of a car that is actually parked outside number 5 - [b]but it
isn't even my car!
[/b]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/Rqyr3csk/google.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/Rqyr3csk
Same colour car but a different car - and DEFINITELY parked in a
different spot from the image in the evidence they sent earlier
above. the below image clearly has someone else's car clearly
parked in number 5. WHY would they include this picture? it
isn't like an undated screenshot of a google map mean anything
right? I actually went on google map and the same car is still
there from capture from october 2025 (before i even moved in)
I mean i could have been be protruding into number 5 a little
bit with no clear marking for parking bay but i am defintely
over 90% of the car is in 7... now if they had said yes you are
parked outside 7 but because you are slightly protruding onto 5
we are still going to fine you i could take it on the chin - but
the google image they added just feels ingenuous and the officer
is just lying that im parked outside 5...
Now what chance do i have of formally challenge your PCN by
using a Notice to Owner form. I will be risking paying extra £80
fine... is it somehting i should just bite the bullet and pay
the £80?
#Post#: 105117--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: RichardW
Date: January 8, 2026, 1:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Post up the PCN, your reps and Notice of rejection, and also a
Google Street View link to the location.
#Post#: 105743--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 13, 2026, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6650338/council-pcn-challenge-declined-but-with-factually-wrong-reasoning-what-to-do-please-help/p1?new=1
i've added further pics here as i cant seem to be able to modify
the original post? apologies im new here.
#Post#: 105752--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 13, 2026, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Post up the PCN, your reps and Notice of rejection, and also a
Google Street View link to the location.
--- End Quote ---
Any reason for not doing the above ?
#Post#: 105754--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 13, 2026, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
im sorry i wasnt entirely sure what it means by post up
let me figure it out
#Post#: 105760--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 13, 2026, 1:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So this is the initial pcn paper i got. not sure if you need the
bits i blacked out
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/14GRP4LC/image.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/14GRP4LC
The challenge email i wrote was:
I am challenging this PCN on the grounds that the alleged
contravention did not occur.
The suspension applied to the bay outside numbers 1, 3, and 5,
but my vehicle was parked outside number 7. There are no bay
markings or physical boundaries indicating that my position fell
within the suspended area. The council’s own photographs do not
show any house numbers or identifiable reference points that
could establish my vehicle’s location relative to the
suspension. The images are taken from an angle and do not prove
that my vehicle was wholly or partly within the suspended bay.
In addition, the suspension was imposed for water gully
cleaning, yet none of the council’s photographs show the gully
itself or its position in relation to my vehicle. Without
evidence of where the gully is located, the authority cannot
demonstrate that the suspended point was obstructed.
The burden of proof rests with the council. As the photographic
evidence does not identify (1) the precise location of my
vehicle or (2) the location of the suspended feature (the
gully), the authority has not substantiated the allegation.
For these reasons, the contravention is not proven and I
respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled.
The rejection letter i got was here:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/3d38wYhM/4.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/3d38wYhM
the location was
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/NqwZKt1X113Zhh9EA
- the
car on the right side is more or less where i was parked perhaps
a bit more forward closer to 5
Other images that were attached at the evidence part of haringey
website was the following (which are also attached at the end of
the rejection letter)
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/bsqyvphM/1.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/bsqyvphM
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/tY9qgpjS/2.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/tY9qgpjS
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/GHbLpdCV/3.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/GHbLpdCV
the rejection letter also says below at the end.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £80.00 if your payment
reaches us within 14 days of the date
of service of this letter.
• You can pay £160.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was
issued.
• You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner
form. The vehicle's owner
will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid
within 28 days of being issued.
The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or
pay the full £160.00. If you
decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us
again but wait until the Notice
to Owner form arrives.
How to pay:
• By internet: Go to
HTML http://www.haringey.gov.uk/payments
and
follow the online instructions.
• By telephone: At any time (Credit/Debit Cards only) on 0300
456 0520 - Please have your
credit/debit card and Penalty Charge Number to hand when you
make the call.
• In person: Take your PCN and payment to Haringey Vehicle
Pound, Unit 1, 1 Waltham Park
Way, London, E17 5DU between Monday to Saturday 7am to 10pm and
Sunday 8am to 8pm.
Please ensure you obtain a receipt.
Yours sincerely
Mr O Olagbaju
Parking Process Case Officer
#Post#: 105786--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 13, 2026, 6:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Have you looked on their website to see the photos they have ?
The bottom line is that they say you were intruding into No 5
frontage, so have to be able to prove this if you take them to
London Tribunals, (your next step apart from paying now).
Downside of this, is you lose the discount option. If you win,
you pay nothing, if you lose it's the full penalty, but there
are no additional costs at all.
#Post#: 105811--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 14, 2026, 4:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/tY9qgpjS/2.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/tY9qgpjS
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/GHbLpdCV/3.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/GHbLpdCV
These are all the photos they have other than duplicates, and
the approximate position on the google map.
only the first picture shows the relative position of the car
and i dont think it is clear if i am itruding into 5. Without a
picture taken perpendicular to the houses it wouldnt be super
obvious
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> The bottom line is that they say you were intruding into No 5
frontage, so have to be able to prove this if you take them to
London Tribunals, (your next step apart from paying now).
Downside of this, is you lose the discount option. If you win,
you pay nothing, if you lose it's the full penalty, but there
are no additional costs at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
The rejection letter is saying that i was parked in no 5 and
intruding into 7.. which is just not true. anyway i thought it
was on THEM to prove that i was breaking the rules rather than
other way around - the pics dont quite prove that i am parked
into the 5 (at least not by how much because there is no obvious
line that separate the two from this angle)... obviously i might
be wrong in this procedure..
which brings me to asking the question here. from your
relatively better knowledge/experience, would it be worth taking
it to the tribunal? or is it quite unlikely i will 'win' this
#Post#: 105821--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 14, 2026, 4:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It is not a "slam-dunk" win. However, the council must prove
your car intruded into the suspended part. You say it didn't, so
the adjudicator will apply the civil test of "on the balance of
probabililties", if the council photos do not show a clear
contravention. It may surprise you to know that photos are not a
legal requirement in the regulations.
#Post#: 105830--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN challenge declined but with strange google pic and no
proof
DIR By: catevary
Date: January 14, 2026, 5:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> It may surprise you to know that photos are not a legal
requirement in the regulations.
>
--- End Quote ---
What the... now im leaning towards just paying the 80 rather
than risk doubling and stressing out about it. unless it is like
80%+ win
"on the balance of probabililties" doesnt sound very promising -
not sure which side they tend to take in general when things are
quite split
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page