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#Post#: 103851--------------------------------------------------
Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: December 27, 2025, 9:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have received a 'letter before action' from 'civil
enforcement.'
This relates to parking at a hospital for a visit on 1/9/2025
I categorically have not received a letter before this, nothing
to ask me to appeal or detailing anything of this.
When entering the hospital the number plate was very clearly
entered into the machine.
I have phoned the hospital and they said to ring back Monday
and they can sort it out, but it seems a little far gone. Can
they still get any parking charge cancelled at any point or was
this the switchboard not understanding?
Just in case I figured I would post this here.
Car is mine and registered to my address and there is absolutely
no reason why no previous letter should have reached me.
Not sure whether its relevant but the other pages detail other
cases Beavis etc and also a page to tick a box if I dispute the
debt wish to pay dispute part etc, I assume this is standard
stuff?
What is best to do here if the hospital cannot squash it?
Here is a link to the letter.
HTML https://ibb.co/N6VRyfhv
Thanks.
#Post#: 103855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: b789
Date: December 27, 2025, 10:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please confirm that your V5C is and was at the time up to date
with your current address. Many people update their drivers
licence when they move put fail to update their V5C at the same
time. One does not automatically update the other.
If your address is definitely correct on the V5C and was at the
time of the alleged contravention and you are adamant that you
never received any windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) at the time
or any postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) then you can rebut their
presumption of delivery in any appeal and put them to strict
proof of posting by way of a 'proof of posting' certificate and
that the correct postal address was used.
That aside, you must contact the hospital PALS service, not some
random switchboard operator. The PALS service can get PCNs
canceled and don't be fobbed off by them. There is NHS Trust
guidance on parking that requires them to follow certain
principles:
NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation
trusts
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles
Specifically the section on 'Contracted out parking'.
In the mean time, you can respond to the Letter of Claim (LoC)
with the following:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sirs,
>
> Re: Your Letter Before Action – alleged unpaid Parking Charge
Notice (PCN)
> PCN reference: [insert]
> Vehicle registration: [insert]
> Date of incident: 1 September 2025
> Location: Springfield Hospital, Lawn Lane, Springfield,
Chelmsford, CM1 7GU
>
> I write as the registered keeper. I dispute the debt in full.
>
> I did not receive any prior correspondence whatsoever (no
Notice to Driver on the windscreen and no postal Notice to
Keeper). The first I have heard of any alleged PCN is your
Letter Before Action. My vehicle is correctly registered at my
current address and there is no reason that earlier letters
should not have been delivered.
>
> On the day in question, the vehicle’s registration number was
entered into the hospital payment/validation machine by the
driver on arrival. I am currently raising this with the
hospital’s PALS service. In the meantime, you must treat this
matter as a formal dispute and you must not issue proceedings
while the dispute and document request below remain outstanding.
>
> Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims – request for
information/documents
>
> So that I can understand your client’s position and respond
properly, please provide the following:
>
> [indent]1. A copy of the original PCN and any Notice to Keeper
allegedly sent, including all pages.
> 2. Evidence of the date of posting for every letter you claim
was sent (for example, proof of posting or equivalent) and
confirmation of the full postal address used on each occasion.
> 3. All photographs and/or ANPR images relied upon, including
the full unredacted time-stamped records and a copy of the ANPR
entry/exit logs for that date.
> 4. A copy of the full payment/VRM terminal record for the
relevant period, showing the VRM entries made (redacted for
other vehicles if necessary), and any payment session records
that your client contends were missing/invalid.
> 5. The contemporaneous signage plan and photographs of the
signs as they were on 1 September 2025, including the entrance
signs and the terms sign(s) relied upon, with the parking charge
sum clearly legible.
> 6. The full unredacted contract/authorisation showing that the
parking operator had authority at this site on the material date
to issue PCNs and to pursue court proceedings in its own name.
> 7. A full breakdown of the amount claimed, identifying the
original parking charge and each added sum, with an explanation
and legal basis for any additional amounts over and above the
parking charge (including any so-called “debt recovery” or
“administration” fees).[/indent]
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, I do not accept any added sums
beyond the parking charge (if any were ever properly incurred).
Any attempt to recover additional fixed “debt recovery” sums
will be treated as an attempt at double recovery and will be
robustly opposed.
>
> Hold on proceedings
>
> Given that this is a disputed debt and I have requested
documents essential to understanding your claim, you are
required to place the matter on hold and provide the requested
information. If you contend that you can proceed regardless,
please explain precisely why, with reference to the Protocol.
>
> Address for service
>
> If you are holding or have used any address other than my
correct address for service, treat this letter as a notification
to rectify your records immediately. All future correspondence
must be sent to this address and any other address must be
erased:
>
> [insert correct address]
>
> If you issue a claim without first providing the information
requested above and without allowing a reasonable period for me
to consider it, I will draw that conduct to the court’s
attention when costs are considered.
>
> I look forward to your substantive response and the documents
requested.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Name]
> [Postal address]
> [Email address]
--- End Quote ---
Also, make a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the DVLA to find
out when they requested the Keeper details from them. Use this
form (DVLA subject access request (SAR) MIS1065
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69494c30888ddc41b48a5484/make-a-subject-access-request-to-dvla-form-mis1065.pdf)<br
/>and email it to subjectaccess.requests@dvla.gov.uk. You only
need to complete sections #1 and #3. For the box in section #1:
"Tell us what specific information you need about your
vehicles", enter the following:
[indent]Please provide details of all requests made for
registered keeper data in respect of vehicle registration [VRM],
including:
– the name of the organisation or individual who requested
the data,
– the date and time of each request,
– the reason stated for each request,
– the legal basis relied upon (e.g. KADOE / reasonable
cause),
– and the address details disclosed by the DVLA in response
to each request,
for the period 1 July 2025 to present.[indent]
#Post#: 103863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: December 27, 2025, 2:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Please confirm that your V5C is and was at the time up to date
with your current address. Many people update their drivers
licence when they move put fail to update their V5C at the same
time. One does not automatically update the other.
>
> If your address is definitely correct on the V5C and was at
the time of the alleged contravention and you are adamant that
you never received any windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) at the
time or any postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) then you can rebut
their presumption of delivery in any appeal and put them to
strict proof of posting by way of a 'proof of posting'
certificate and that the correct postal address was used.
>
> That aside, you must contact the hospital PALS service, not
some random switchboard operator. The PALS service can get PCNs
canceled and don't be fobbed off by them. There is NHS Trust
guidance on parking that requires them to follow certain
principles:
>
> NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS
foundation trusts
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles
>
> Specifically the section on 'Contracted out parking'.
>
> In the mean time, you can respond to the Letter of Claim (LoC)
with the following:
>
> [quote]Dear Sirs,
>
> Re: Your Letter Before Action – alleged unpaid Parking Charge
Notice (PCN)
> PCN reference: [insert]
> Vehicle registration: [insert]
> Date of incident: 1 September 2025
> Location: Springfield Hospital, Lawn Lane, Springfield,
Chelmsford, CM1 7GU
>
> I write as the registered keeper. I dispute the debt in full.
>
> I did not receive any prior correspondence whatsoever (no
Notice to Driver on the windscreen and no postal Notice to
Keeper). The first I have heard of any alleged PCN is your
Letter Before Action. My vehicle is correctly registered at my
current address and there is no reason that earlier letters
should not have been delivered.
>
> On the day in question, the vehicle’s registration number was
entered into the hospital payment/validation machine by the
driver on arrival. I am currently raising this with the
hospital’s PALS service. In the meantime, you must treat this
matter as a formal dispute and you must not issue proceedings
while the dispute and document request below remain outstanding.
>
> Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims – request for
information/documents
>
> So that I can understand your client’s position and respond
properly, please provide the following:
>
> [indent]1. A copy of the original PCN and any Notice to Keeper
allegedly sent, including all pages.
> 2. Evidence of the date of posting for every letter you claim
was sent (for example, proof of posting or equivalent) and
confirmation of the full postal address used on each occasion.
> 3. All photographs and/or ANPR images relied upon, including
the full unredacted time-stamped records and a copy of the ANPR
entry/exit logs for that date.
> 4. A copy of the full payment/VRM terminal record for the
relevant period, showing the VRM entries made (redacted for
other vehicles if necessary), and any payment session records
that your client contends were missing/invalid.
> 5. The contemporaneous signage plan and photographs of the
signs as they were on 1 September 2025, including the entrance
signs and the terms sign(s) relied upon, with the parking charge
sum clearly legible.
> 6. The full unredacted contract/authorisation showing that the
parking operator had authority at this site on the material date
to issue PCNs and to pursue court proceedings in its own name.
> 7. A full breakdown of the amount claimed, identifying the
original parking charge and each added sum, with an explanation
and legal basis for any additional amounts over and above the
parking charge (including any so-called “debt recovery” or
“administration” fees).[/indent]
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, I do not accept any added sums
beyond the parking charge (if any were ever properly incurred).
Any attempt to recover additional fixed “debt recovery” sums
will be treated as an attempt at double recovery and will be
robustly opposed.
>
> Hold on proceedings
>
> Given that this is a disputed debt and I have requested
documents essential to understanding your claim, you are
required to place the matter on hold and provide the requested
information. If you contend that you can proceed regardless,
please explain precisely why, with reference to the Protocol.
>
> Address for service
>
> If you are holding or have used any address other than my
correct address for service, treat this letter as a notification
to rectify your records immediately. All future correspondence
must be sent to this address and any other address must be
erased:
>
> [insert correct address]
>
> If you issue a claim without first providing the information
requested above and without allowing a reasonable period for me
to consider it, I will draw that conduct to the court’s
attention when costs are considered.
>
> I look forward to your substantive response and the documents
requested.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Name]
> [Postal address]
> [Email address]
--- End Quote ---
Also, make a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the DVLA to find
out when they requested the Keeper details from them. Use this
form (DVLA subject access request (SAR) MIS1065
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69494c30888ddc41b48a5484/make-a-subject-access-request-to-dvla-form-mis1065.pdf)<br
/>and email it to subjectaccess.requests@dvla.gov.uk. You only
need to complete sections #1 and #3. For the box in section #1:
"Tell us what specific information you need about your
vehicles", enter the following:
[indent]Please provide details of all requests made for
registered keeper data in respect of vehicle registration [VRM],
including:
– the name of the organisation or individual who requested the
data,
– the date and time of each request,
– the reason stated for each request,
– the legal basis relied upon (e.g. KADOE / reasonable cause),
– and the address details disclosed by the DVLA in response to
each request,
for the period 1 July 2025 to present.[indent]
[/quote]
Thanks. I have just realised something important. This was my
other vehicle and I had not updated the logbook with my new
address.
I almost never take that vehicle out for non work related
driving so thats why I didnt even look properly at the plate.
This will be why this has happened then.
Does it change the other pasrt of what I need to do?
I am hoping the hospital will cancel it anyway they have told me
to ring Monday and speak to the person you mentioned in your
post.
I now have another concern that what if I have received any
NIPs from this vehicle in the meantime.
#Post#: 103878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: b789
Date: December 27, 2025, 4:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains that
a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the Keeper,
within the relevant period.
Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date with
a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued, that
is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice from an
unregulated private parking firm.
If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge,
it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been
complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver
is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is
if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal
obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.
In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way
to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the
proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is
getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the
gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be
able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly.
CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was
never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by
those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these
bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.
So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the address
on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any difference to
thus case now.
#Post#: 103885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: December 28, 2025, 2:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains
that a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the
Keeper, within the relevant period.
>
> Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date
with a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued,
that is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice
from an unregulated private parking firm.
>
> If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge,
it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been
complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver
is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is
if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal
obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.
>
> In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way
to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the
proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is
getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the
gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
>
> Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be
able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly.
CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was
never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by
those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these
bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.
>
> So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the
address on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any
difference to thus case now.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks. Dont I need the physical logbook though? I lost it years
ago.
Do youknow what form I need to fill ojut to get a new one I cant
seem to find it easily.
Thanks.
#Post#: 103886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: RichardW
Date: December 28, 2025, 2:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
V62:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-vehicle-registration-certificate
#Post#: 103888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: December 28, 2025, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RichardW link ---
>
> V62:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-vehicle-registration-certificate
>
--- End Quote ---
~
Thanks
#Post#: 104017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: December 29, 2025, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains
that a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the
Keeper, within the relevant period.
>
> Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date
with a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued,
that is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice
from an unregulated private parking firm.
>
> If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge,
it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been
complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver
is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is
if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal
obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.
>
> In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way
to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the
proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is
getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the
gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
>
> Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be
able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly.
CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was
never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by
those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these
bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.
>
> So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the
address on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any
difference to thus case now.
>
--- End Quote ---
I spoke to the hospital today and they said they would get the
ticket quashed.
However should I still send the letter as advised in the first
reply? Or just leave it for now? Just wondering if they will
get two conflicting replies if I still send it and the hospital
contact them to cancel it.
Thanks.
#Post#: 104032--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: b789
Date: December 29, 2025, 8:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Spoke" to the hospital? A conversation is not worth the paper
it isn't written on. Either get confirmation in writing that
they are gong to get the PCN cancelled, otherwise carry on as
advised.
#Post#: 104236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters
previously.
DIR By: Never_Enough
Date: January 1, 2026, 10:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> "Spoke" to the hospital? A conversation is not worth the paper
it isn't written on. Either get confirmation in writing that
they are gong to get the PCN cancelled, otherwise carry on as
advised.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is Email good enough? They said they would send me an Email
confirming this.
Thanks.
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