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#Post#: 103760--------------------------------------------------
Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before it en
ded
By: user786 Date: December 24, 2025, 2:02 pm
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HTML https://ibb.co/60jxssmj
HTML https://ibb.co/60jxssmj
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/eQdKojI
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/eQdKojI
is this okay to challenge ....thanks
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice.
At this location, parking and loading restrictions apply from
07:45 to 09:15, after which parking is permitted. There are two
separate signs governing the restriction, and from my driving
position neither sign is legible. Alum rock road is extremely
busy, and it would have been unsafe to stop in the carriageway
in order to read the signage.
For this reason, I stopped only momentarily and safely to read
and understand the restrictions. I have attached photographs
showing that the signs cannot reasonably be read from where I
momentarily stopped.
The alleged contravention time is recorded as 09:14:45, which is
15 seconds before the restriction ended. Of the six photographs
relied upon by the Civil Enforcement Officer, three are taken
after 09:15, including the photograph of the sign itself, when
parking was permitted. Evidence taken after the restriction had
ended cannot establish that a contravention occurred at the time
alleged.
Although I understand that Code 02 is a zero-time contravention,
a PCN may only be issued once a contravention has actually
occurred. Issuing a PCN while a driver is reasonably checking
multiple, unreadable signs on a busy road, and relying on
post-restriction evidence, is premature and procedurally
improper.
In addition, Birmingham City Council’s own Civil Parking
Enforcement Guidelines state:
“What is important about these guidelines is that they represent
a foundation upon which fairness and discretion can be applied.
The importance of flexibility in these matters has been
recognised by the courts and, as a consequence, decisions made
by councils must not be fettered by being unduly formulaic.”
In this case, no such discretion or flexibility appears to have
been applied. The PCN was issued 15 seconds before the
restriction ended, while I was momentarily and safely checking
multiple, signs on a busy road, and the authority now relies in
part on post-restriction photographs to support a
pre-restriction allegation.
A refusal to cancel the PCN in these circumstances would
indicate a fettered and formulaic approach, contrary to the
council’s own published guidance and the principles of fairness
recognised by the courts.
Further, Birmingham City Council’s Civil Parking Enforcement
Guidelines (MC25) state that although motorists may assume a
period of grace, “it is expected that Civil Enforcement Officers
will exercise discretion before issuing a Penalty Charge Notice
in some cases, where there are compelling reasons or other
specific mitigating circumstances requiring the case to be
assessed on its individual merits.”
This case clearly involves such compelling and mitigating
circumstances. I stopped only momentarily on a busy road to read
multiple signs that are not legible from the driving position,
in order to confirm that the restriction ended at 09:15. The PCN
was issued at 09:14:45, just seconds before the restriction
ended, and the authority relies in part on post-09:15
photographs to support the allegation.
In these circumstances, issuing a PCN without exercising
discretion demonstrates a formulaic approach, contrary to the
council’s own guidance, which requires flexibility, fairness,
and individual assessment.
I therefore respectfully request that discretion be properly
applied and that this PCN be cancelled.
#Post#: 103765--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: fraser.mitchell Date: December 24, 2025, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks OK, but don't expect them to cancel; Scrooge's relatives
are all employed by council parking departments around the UK !
Your reps are based on 'de minimis', which is a well known legal
principle that the law does not concern itself with trifling
offences. (De minimis non curat lex). You should win if you take
them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but you'll have to risk
the full PCN penalty.
#Post#: 103776--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: John U.K. Date: December 25, 2025, 1:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please post both sides of the unredacted PCN, so that the 'small
print' can be checked for any possible fatal errors, and also a
GSV link to the location..
#Post#: 104018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: user786 Date: December 29, 2025, 5:07 pm
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refused looks like standard copy and paste reply !
Started taking about disabled badges when i didnt mention
anything about that ?!
Thank you for your enquiry concerning the Penalty Charge Notice
detailed above.
I have given careful consideration to the circumstances you have
described but regret
that there are no grounds for the notice to be withdrawn.
The Charge was correctly issued. Your vehicle was parked in
contravention of a
loading ban in force between 7.45am-09.15am. This restriction
was clearly signed
(Civil Enforcement Officer’s photographs can be viewed on our
website:
www.birmingham.gov.uk/PCN). Your reasons are, therefore, not
accepted as grounds
for cancellation of the Charge.
For this type of contravention, there is no minimum observation
time required of Civil
Enforcement Officers before issuing a Penalty Charge Notice.
Thus, they issue Notices
instantly.
I have noted all your comments concerning the signage in this
area, I must advise you
that these signs have been approved by the Department of
Transport and are referred
to in the Highway Code, with which motorists should be familiar.
I must advise you that parking is not permitted for Disabled
Badge holders when a ban
on loading or unloading is in force. This is outlined in the
Blue Badge Scheme Booklet,
provided to all badge holders.
I have noted all your comments and whilst I appreciate the
circumstances that resulted
you parking at this location. I must advise you that it is the
responsibility of the motorist
to ensure that all parking restrictions are observed and signage
is checked prior to
parking the vehicle, ensuring that the vehicle is parked in a
place not causing a
contravention. In this instance it would have been advisable to
have arranged parking
where a contravention would not have occurred.
I regret, therefore, that I am unable to withdraw the notice and
must request payment
be forwarded in settlement of the matter.
#Post#: 104019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: user786 Date: December 29, 2025, 5:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=John U.K. link=topic=9275.msg103776#msg103776
date=1766649273]
Please post both sides of the unredacted PCN, so that the 'small
print' can be checked for any possible fatal errors, and also a
GSV link to the location..
[/quote]
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4880213,-1.8430988,3a,75y,296.51h,88.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUtaBTn3W1Op_o_h0FfYWEQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.8413284326632748%26panoid%3DUtaBTn3W1Op_o_h0FfYWEQ%26yaw%3D296.50732480788554!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4880213,-1.8430988,3a,75y,296.51h,88.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUtaBTn3W1Op_o_h0FfYWEQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.8413284326632748%26panoid%3DUtaBTn3W1Op_o_h0FfYWEQ%26yaw%3D296.50732480788554!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
#Post#: 104038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: John U.K. Date: December 30, 2025, 2:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The reason we ask for copies of documents, rather than
transcriptions, is that errors and omissions can creep into the
transcription.
You have omitted a most important fact - the date of the
rejection of your challenge. You have also omitted the PCN
number and Reg.Mark. Please post a copy of all sides of the
rejection letter.
That said, in the extract from the letter you have posted, there
is no sign of their considering of you leading and important
challenge, the principle of de minimis.
That failure to consider and the principle of de minimis should
win at Adjudication should it get that far, so your next step is
to wait for the NtO.
If B'ham have the facility online, keep an eye on the status
history of the PCN for the issue of the NtO, and post it here
when it arrives.
#Post#: 104046--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: fraser.mitchell Date: December 30, 2025, 4:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
+1
It's the usual Fob-Off letter we always see from councils
responding to informal challenges. I would add another ground
for cancellation, namely 'failure to consider'. Councils have a
duty under the regulations to consider points made in a
representation.
#Post#: 104096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: stamfordman Date: December 30, 2025, 11:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So where were you when the PCN was issued?
#Post#: 104128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: user786 Date: December 30, 2025, 5:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
on the pavement , it was 9.15 on the sign so thought they
would stop ticketing .
#Post#: 104130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham Contravention 02 .pcn issued 15 seconds before i
t ended
By: user786 Date: December 30, 2025, 5:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=John U.K. link=topic=9275.msg104038#msg104038
date=1767083938]
The reason we ask for copies of documents, rather than
transcriptions, is that errors and omissions can creep into the
transcription.
You have omitted a most important fact - the date of the
rejection of your challenge. You have also omitted the PCN
number and Reg.Mark. Please post a copy of all sides of the
rejection letter.
That said, in the extract from the letter you have posted, there
is no sign of their considering of you leading and important
challenge, the principle of de minimis.
That failure to consider and the principle of de minimis should
win at Adjudication should it get that far, so your next step is
to wait for the NtO.
If B'ham have the facility online, keep an eye on the status
history of the PCN for the issue of the NtO, and post it here
when it arrives.
[/quote]
HTML https://postimg.cc/gallery/vxW3LZW
HTML https://postimg.cc/gallery/vxW3LZW
thats the redacted letter , i have removed the PCN /REG as
people can access my account using them 2 details .
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