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#Post#: 103744--------------------------------------------------
UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: Snapp1e
Date: December 24, 2025, 10:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I joined here today, read some past cases and advice given to
parking charge notices issued by UKCPS at Leeds train station.
It is an excellent source of info of how to progress.
I will post here the photos of the letter I received but please
bear with me, I need assistance to do this so it will take a few
days to do it. Looking at those already provided on here, it is
an identical letter for this location, Leeds Station.
From the info I have cobbled together a letter to appeal to
UKCPS. I have cut down the detail as advised. I have also
followed a more concise reply to them as found on here (see
below). I did try and thank those who I took info from by using
the emojis, but as a first-time user of this site I am not sure
I did it properly because the site said "loading" and I'm not
sure if the emoji messages were sent... I am grateful for the
help you gave to previous cases.
One thing, most of the cases at Leeds Station involve drivers
stopping for a very short space of time for passengers to
alight. The driver of this case has a different set of
circumstances which I will list here in case there has to be a
change to the wording at this stage or the next stage (appeal to
the IPS which will also be rejected probably) which will come
along soon enough when UKCPS rejects my appeal.
THIS CASE:
We cannot tell from the picture provided where the contravention
of stopping is supposed to have happened.
The driver had left the station's multi storey car park where
they had paid for parking for a few hours and was driving away
when the photo was taken. The driver has no recollection of
stopping for a purpose.
The driver believes they did not stop. If they did stop it was
for something very inconsequential and for a very short space of
time. Most certainly the car doors were not opened and the
engine was not switched off. The photo provided shows the car
has its lights on.
The driver recalls leaving the car park without any different
circumstances, probably following other cars, with pedestrians
around and just driving onwards in the flow of traffic. Or,
perhaps the car stalled. The driver has checked their phone and
text logs and confirms there was no need to pull over to use
their mobile.
EDIT: the time frame of stopping is 6 seconds. Let's all laugh
LOUDLY.
Questions:
1. EDIT: the UPCPS web link now works and the timescale is now
confirmed to be 6 SECONDS DURATION!!
Should I mention 6 seconds in my appeal to UKCPS?
INITIAL QUESTION: The link provided in the letter does not work
so I cannot see additional information on the duration of the
time stopped. I assume this is where this information should be
because other users have mentioned it and it is not stated in
the letter (only the time of the stop). Obviously this
information is important to have. How do I deal with this
missing information? Presumably it will be for a few seconds.
2. For the IPS when that comes next:
If we provide information that we had parked in the multi storey
car park, can UKCPS identify the driver through the time of
departure from multi story car park and the electronic method of
payment used? This could be risky information?
3. I had initially thought it helped to prove that the driver
had parked legally and paid in the multi storey, then when the
driver left they were driving a short distance through
‘presumably’ railway land to the public road and the car did not
stop unless it had to through flow of traffic or pedestrians
crossing. Or perhaps the car stalled. However, it may need
careful consideration about divulging it and only necessary at
CCJ?
Defence at CCJ if it reaches that point:
4. How can the driver make a defence if they have no memory of
stopping?
Will the duration of the stop provide the evidence that the stop
was not illegal? As I mentioned above I do not yet have this
information because the link in the letter does not work.
is the defence affected because the driver has no explanation?
Thanks for your help!
It's Christmas Eve and I must do some things, then I will return
and I will post the appeal to UKCPS I have done.
In the next few days I will upload the letter from UKCPS
#Post#: 103746--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: jfollows
Date: December 24, 2025, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You will have seen from your research that it’s not “relevant
land” as defined for PoFA 2012, and therefore the liability
can’t be transferred from the unknown driver to you, the
registered keeper.
Don’t identify the driver and appeal accordingly.
The appeal, although correct, will be rejected “after careful
consideration” because it’s what they do.
No matter. You continue with advice here and eventually they’ll
give up.
Since your initial appeal will be rejected anyway, don’t go
overboard with it. Search the forum for sample appeals from the
same location.
#Post#: 103747--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: Snapp1e
Date: December 24, 2025, 11:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hi jfollows and thank you,
I have edited my post because their web link is working now.
6 seconds is the time of stopping. 6 seconds.
Should I mention 6 seconds in my short reply to them if only to
ridicule them?
#Post#: 103762--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: Snapp1e
Date: December 24, 2025, 2:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The letter of parking charge from UKCPS for Leeds Station does
not provide an email address.
I would prefer to send in the appeal by email.
The only contacts given for appeals are by post and via their
website.
Are all Keepers having to send in the appeal via the UKCPS
website? Does it have tracking?
The letter does not include an email address anywhere for
anything.
Thanks!
#Post#: 103767--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: b789
Date: December 24, 2025, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Stop!!!!! Do not appeal anything until you have shown us the
Notice to Keeper (NtK), both sides. We need to see the EXAXT
wording they have used to describe the alleged contravention. We
also need to establish exactly where the alleged contravention
took place because the multi-storey car park at Leeds Station is
relevant land but the station itself is not.
If they are alleging that the driver breach a contractual sign
that forbids stopping, then they ar lying because a forbidding
sign cannot for a contract with the driver. There are many
elements to this that we do not yet know. So, before you do
anything else, post photos of the NtK and if possible any
supposed evidential photos they may have included on their
website.
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#Post#: 103772--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: Snapp1e
Date: December 24, 2025, 7:29 pm
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thank you b789, I appreciate your speed of reply and your
knowledge!
Nobody has replied about the possibility of UKCPS identifying a
driver thru the electronic payment method used when departing
from the multi storey car park. Can this happen? If it can
happen, how can the driver be safe by me putting all the info on
here?
Once info has been confirmed about identity, I will read up on
how to upload all the photos, their 2 page letter and my draft
reply.
I will do this within the next few days, or maybe tomorrow if I
get some help sooner.
I won't send my reply till I hear back on here.
I know I have to submit within 28 days of the day after the
notice is given. I think that means the day after the alleged
incident happened? Or does it mean the day after the date of
their letter? Either way I have enough time over the next few
days.
For clarity, the letter does not state any detail except No
stopping. It does not mention the multi storey carpark. I
mentioned it because the location of stopping is different from
the majority of cases on here because it is not at the station
door. From the photos you might recognise where the vehicle
stopped for 6 seconds.
If a car stalls and the engine loses functioning, I don't see
how that is seen as purposeful stopping and I assume the CCJ
would view this too if it reaches that point.
#Post#: 103788--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: roythebus
Date: December 25, 2025, 10:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unless you want this to escalate, DO NOT post anything to the
parking company until we've seen all the paperwork. I don't see
how a parking company could identify a driver through paying at
a cash machine. a passenger in the car could be paying for the
parking.
Don't panic, it's Christmas and some of us may not want to look
in here this time.
#Post#: 103793--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: b789
Date: December 25, 2025, 11:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The ONLY way an unregulated private parking firm can identify
the driver is if the Keeper tells them. There is absolutely no
other way for them to identify the driver.
Even if they had a close up HD photo of the driver, there is no
way they can identify the person. There is no magical unicorn
database they can input an image and out will spit the persons
identity.
The only identity they have is the Keepers. They got that from
the DVLA. There is absolutely no presumption in law that the
Keeper is also the driver. Anyone with third party insurance
cover can drive the car, not just named drivers covered under a
comprehensive policy. Anyway, these bottom-dwelling private
firms have no powers to check who is on an insurance policy.
So, the absolutely ONLY thing you need to do as Keeper is to NOT
identify the driver. No "I did this or that", only "the driver
did this or that". The ONLY way they can transfer liability from
the unidentified driver to the known Keeper is if the NtK is
100% compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012 and the
location is land that is "relevant" to the Act.
This is why it is important to establish exactly where they
claim the vehicle "stopped". If it is on railway property, then
until 26th December, it is NOT relevant land and they cannot
rely on the provisions of PoFA.
#Post#: 103804--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: Snapp1e
Date: December 25, 2025, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That's good to know thank you. I was not in the car, I am
sorting this out as the registered keeper and it was initially
difficult because the driver had no recollection of stopping and
also the link to the photo evidence did not initially available
to help the driver remember.
Now that I have seen the photo evidence, it has not helped the
driver to remember because the stop was for a few seconds. It's
good to know that the driver doesn't need to remember anything
more to help me appeal this case. And it's true to say that the
driver did have a passenger and I am not sure who paid for the
parking.
I will upload the info hopefully tomorrow so that I can get
advice on here before replying to UKCPS. Thanks again.
#Post#: 103816--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKCPS Leeds Station - Notice to Keeper (Postal-PoFA) - no
recollection of stopping
DIR By: b789
Date: December 26, 2025, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
you show us the NtK and the evidential photos, we can help
identify whether the alleged contravention was on relevant land
or not.
If you need an initial appeal, the just use the following.
Almost no initial appeal is ever upheld so don't waste any
effort on it.
--- Quote ---
> I am the registered keeper. UKCPS cannot hold a registered
keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is
under statutory control (until 26 December 2025). As a matter of
fact and law, UKCPS will be well aware that they cannot use the
PoFA provisions because Leeds Stationt is not 'relevant land'.
>
> If Leeds Station wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under
Railway Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and
another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded,
it is also not legally possible because UKCPS is not the station
owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be
a penalty. It is created for UKCPS’s own profit (as opposed to a
bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and UKCPS has
relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver
only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
UKCPS have no hope should you try to litigate, so you are urged
to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
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