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#Post#: 10086--------------------------------------------------
PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: TWUK
Date: November 13, 2023, 12:32 pm
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This is my first time to post and I tried to follow everyone
format on posting with essential evidence and details.I provided
the PCN(masked my details) with the evidences from Barnet
Council including the videos.
I am the blue BMW in the video.
After reviewed my video, I want to make the appeal because I
could not estimate there would be a standstill traffic before my
car right after the yellow box, giving that it's a clear green
light. The second point I would try to highlight would be I
can't start driving as there's a pedestian walk out while I'm
waiting. Not sure my points are strong enough to make this
appeal so I would like to have some advices here.
PCN : PCN Document
HTML https://ibb.co/svCnsTL
Video Evidence : PCN Video
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/15qpM6t8VCJY9vyJ2-kM9JCt93BtTOLER/view?usp=sharing
Photos Evidences :
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X3fX-y7jvOepNC7fZeSQHgDSdXxDFthe/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p1Y44Iv-7t0Ah3_YdAKivAWgYXDqJ6_8/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aoChJv6XbNIE2ScbFa7p3UQQ6qm88WzT/view?usp=sharing
Thanks a lot!
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 10263--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 14, 2023, 6:20 pm
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I'm sorry to tell you that the contravention is
banged-to-rights, you're not meant to enter the box unless you
can see that your exit is clear.
Post the remaining pages of the PCN and we can try finding a
technical defence.
#Post#: 10273--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 14, 2023, 6:56 pm
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+1
Sorry, OP, but as cp8759 says, the video shows you as totally
bang-to-rights. You entered the YBJ when there was no room on
the other side of the YBJ for your car to drive into. You were
also already stopped in the box when the pedestrian appeared.
BTW, your text shows that you are under a misapprehension about
the restrictions imposed by a YBJ.
--- Quote ---
> I could not estimate there would be a standstill traffic
before my car right after the yellow box, giving that it's a
clear green light.
--- End Quote ---
All the traffic light going green means is you can proceed if
you can pass over the box without stopping. The video shows that
you would have clearly seen before driving forward that there
was no room.
Sorry if this isn't what wanted to hear, but we deal in reality
on this forum, and the plain fact is that the discount is your
best option. Certainly you would lose at London Tribunals and
have to pay £130.
#Post#: 10275--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 14, 2023, 8:17 pm
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As others have already said, the video shows a solid
contravention.
Only thing I can think of is that the time shown in the PCN
doesn't correspond with when you caused your vehicle to enter
the box (which is when the offence strictly occurs). You entered
at 1537 and PCN says 1538.
I don't think we've tried this argument at tribunal before so
can't say how likely it is to win.
Unlike other PCNs the Barnet template doesn't actually say this
is when it believes you committed the offence but that this is
when your vehicle 'was seen' (which I guess isn't incorrect).
PCN is obliged to state the grounds on which Barnet believe a
contravention has occurred, but I'm not sure these are defined.
#Post#: 10302--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: TWUK
Date: November 15, 2023, 6:29 am
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Thanks all! I further read on the 31J rules and reviewed my
video. I should have wait the car to exit the YBJ before I moved
in.That's the rules. I will pay for the discounted PCN.
Supplemented the next few pages of PCN docs
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kYvxyG2JECjz4wYGXiS_B60YRZoOhzmm/view?usp=sharing
#Post#: 10337--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 15, 2023, 3:33 pm
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--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
> ....
> Only thing I can think of is that the time shown in the PCN
doesn't correspond with when you caused your vehicle to enter
the box (which is when the offence strictly occurs). You entered
at 1537 and PCN says 1538.
>
> I don't think we've tried this argument at tribunal before so
can't say how likely it is to win...........
>
--- End Quote ---
It has been used and successfully but when the time of
contravention on the PCN doesn't show a contravention..... ie of
they had stated 15.36, the evidence is clear that there was no
contravention.
In this case the video shows that the vehicle stopped,
completing the 3 items prescribed (entering, stopped and due to
stationary vehicle) at about 15.37.55 and that the vehicle was
still stopped well into 15.38.
IMO stating either 15.37 (actual point of contravention) or
15.38 (still in contravention) is valid.
#Post#: 10532--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 18, 2023, 12:48 pm
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--- Quote from: TWUK link ---
>
> Supplemented the next few pages of PCN docs
>
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kYvxyG2JECjz4wYGXiS_B60YRZoOhzmm/view?usp=sharing
>
--- End Quote ---
You need to change the sharing settings to public.
#Post#: 10567--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: TWUK
Date: November 18, 2023, 6:45 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=TWUK link=topic=926.msg10302#msg10302
date=1700051343]
> Supplemented the next few pages of PCN docs
>
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kYvxyG2JECjz4wYGXiS_B60YRZoOhzmm/view?usp=sharing
>
--- End Quote ---
You need to change the sharing settings to public.
[/quote]
Changed. Thanks a lot and I paid for the discounted PCN already.
#Post#: 10577--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN-Barnet-31J Entering and stopping in a box junction
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 19, 2023, 3:14 am
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As you've now paid, it's game over.
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