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#Post#: 11342--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 26, 2023, 5:33 pm
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Your third photo down has to be the decider. A clearly shown
area of re-surfaced carriageway, with the double yellow lines at
one end and the parking bay markings at the other end. So
nothing to indicate where the parking bay ends nor the yellow
lines; some unknown distance along the new tarmac !
#Post#: 11364--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 27, 2023, 7:08 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Your third photo down has to be the decider. A clearly shown
area of re-surfaced carriageway, with the double yellow lines at
one end and the parking bay markings at the other end. So
nothing to indicate where the parking bay ends nor the yellow
lines; some unknown distance along the new tarmac !
>
--- End Quote ---
So I have a case ?
#Post#: 11389--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 27, 2023, 12:59 pm
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--- Quote from: RocketRonnieRadox link ---
>
> I walked away and proceeded to use the app 2 pay. The app kept
telling me that there is an error and my bank declined the
payment. I tried multiple times but by the time I got backto the
van to move it it had a ticket!
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you have any screenshots, declined bank transactions, phone
logs or anything else to support this?
If not, you might need to get in touch with the app provider to
get the logs from their end.
As for the DYL PCN I think the first photo above shows a
substantive contravention as your bumper is clearly over the
yellow line, and it's too much to be de-minimis. Where you
actually loading / unloading at the time?
#Post#: 11412--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 27, 2023, 2:42 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=RocketRonnieRadox
link=topic=925.msg10084#msg10084 date=1699899834]
> I walked away and proceeded to use the app 2 pay. The app kept
telling me that there is an error and my bank declined the
payment. I tried multiple times but by the time I got backto the
van to move it it had a ticket!
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you have any screenshots, declined bank transactions, phone
logs or anything else to support this?
If not, you might need to get in touch with the app provider to
get the logs from their end.
As for the DYL PCN I think the first photo above shows a
substantive contravention as your bumper is clearly over the
yellow line, and it's too much to be de-minimis. Where you
actually loading / unloading at the time?
[/quote]
I checked my statements and they never show declined
transactions. Perhaps the bank / app service provider and show
it in the logs.
As for the Covent garden PCN I was not loading due to the lack
of lines that clearly show the limit of the loading bay I
assumed it was general parking, the lack of lines and signs
directly over the space mislead me. as for my bumper being over
the yellow lines I was under the impression that it has to be a
wheel.
#Post#: 11418--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 27, 2023, 3:56 pm
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--- Quote from: RocketRonnieRadox link ---
>
> as for my bumper being over the yellow lines I was under the
impression that it has to be a wheel.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm afraid you're mistaken and I would not risk the discount on
that point. If you give us a link to the exact spot on Google
Street View, I'll check it against The Parking Places and
Controlled Parking Zone (Liverpool) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tpBqnnQZQO7ZNG1AaFX7rTLZn6WFJSs4<br
/>to see if the road markings match up to the order.
As for the other one, you have much better chances but it is
essential that you get something in writing from the bank and/or
the app provider, otherwise the council will say that you've
made it all up.
#Post#: 11426--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 27, 2023, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=RocketRonnieRadox
link=topic=925.msg11412#msg11412 date=1701117726]
> as for my bumper being over the yellow lines I was under the
impression that it has to be a wheel.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm afraid you're mistaken and I would not risk the discount on
that point. If you give us a link to the exact spot on Google
Street View, I'll check it against The Parking Places and
Controlled Parking Zone (Liverpool) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tpBqnnQZQO7ZNG1AaFX7rTLZn6WFJSs4<br
/>to see if the road markings match up to the order.
As for the other one, you have much better chances but it is
essential that you get something in writing from the bank and/or
the app provider, otherwise the council will say that you've
made it all up.
[/quote]
So I wentback to the photo, and indeed your bumper is over the
DYLs, so in my view a minimal incursion, but the council will
make play of the fact that they hadn't got round to repainting
the DYLs onto the resurface area, so a de minimis grounds is not
strong. Your problem was thinking your wheels had to be on them;
not so unfortunately. However when I look at this PCN, it really
is venal moneygrubbing, but legal, I'm afraid.
#Post#: 11451--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 28, 2023, 8:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=RocketRonnieRadox
link=topic=925.msg11412#msg11412 date=1701117726]
> as for my bumper being over the yellow lines I was under the
impression that it has to be a wheel.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm afraid you're mistaken and I would not risk the discount on
that point. If you give us a link to the exact spot on Google
Street View, I'll check it against The Parking Places and
Controlled Parking Zone (Liverpool) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tpBqnnQZQO7ZNG1AaFX7rTLZn6WFJSs4<br
/>to see if the road markings match up to the order.
As for the other one, you have much better chances but it is
essential that you get something in writing from the bank and/or
the app provider, otherwise the council will say that you've
made it all up.
[/quote]
Many thanks here is a link
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/npvyjJpZ5HGFEQms6
#Post#: 11492--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 28, 2023, 6:19 pm
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For the FYL case, the entry at item 46C of the traffic order on
page 127 says "46C Covent Garden southwesterly side for its
entire length."
That really only leaves you the strategy of last resort, which
is explained here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413.<br
/>It has worked before (see Simandeep Johal v London Borough of
Lewisham (2230428653, 04 November 2023
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1uO4vGI2oqMEn4AfG0PX8a90jO0Imon3E)<br
/>but we've not tried it on Liverpool yet.
#Post#: 12045--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: December 7, 2023, 10:11 am
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Covent Carden PCN - I uploaded images to a site with a clicker
in hidden format and they all got 2 clicks
Reply from council -
Reason(s) for rejection;
A PCN was issued to the above vehicle because it was 01-Parked
in a
restricted street during prescribed hours in COVENT GARDEN - L2
on the
07/11/2023. The vehicle was observed between 10:46 and 10:51 and
the
Notice was issued at 10:51. The operational hours of this
restriction are 24
hours a day 7 days a week.
The issuing Civil Enforcement Officer has noted that the vehicle
was parked
on a waiting restriction marked by a clear double yellow line. A
number of
photographs were taken after the issue of the Penalty Charge
Notice which
show the vehicle parked fully on the pavement on a clear double
yellow line.
The vehicle was parked on a waiting restriction marked by double
yellow
lines, this restriction is in operation 24 hours, 7 days a week,
in other words ‘at
any time’; since 31st January 2003 councils have been no longer
required to
erect time plates to accompany an ‘at any time’ restriction.
Waiting restrictions, indicated by single or double yellow lines
at the edge of
carriageway, apply from the centre line of the carriageway to
the building line
at the back of the highway and include the pavement and any
verge.
Having given careful consideration to your informal challenge
and all the
information available to me in the circumstances I must now
advise you that
grounds for your informal challenge against the Penalty Charge
Notice have
not been established.
It is the responsibility of the driver to check for restrictions
and to ensure that
their vehicle is not parked in a manner that contravenes parking
regulations.
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