DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 10084--------------------------------------------------
2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 13, 2023, 12:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All, I had a real bad day and received 2 PCN's on the same
day.
Firstly I got on on Covent Garden Liverpool, there were no
double yellow lines, there was a van already parked there with
no ticket. I parked and came back to a ticket despite there
being no signage or double yellow lines. There was a loading
only but I parked in front of it where there were no yellow
lines at all yet still got a ticket. This is part 1 of 2.
I then got next PCN as I parked in a council pay parking spot
which I usually pay in the phone and pay app. I walked away and
proceeded to use the app 2 pay. The app kept telling me that
there is an error and my bank declined the payment. I tried
multiple times but by the time I got backto the van to move it
it had a ticket!
What can I do on both counts please ?
Many thanks
HTML https://i.imgur.com/DfU1JcX.png
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 10119--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 13, 2023, 5:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Edit
GSV links updated to show 2023 views
Covent Garden
Covent Garden is a one-way street, and this is what you see when
you turn into it.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/vtee7uoxrg88xGiAA
and this
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/abixAmRtNu84Xzk86
and here's a sign about halfway down
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/P95H3VPrnjSCww2i9
There is a loading bay by the Pig & Whisle
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/GAFJdjqLwnaXM7gN6
There is also a sign for No Loading by the ticket machine for
the parking bay. Not that there is a divider between it and the
P&D bay
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/XHZTHQHQjkopkv9s7
Looking at GSV, the whole street is double-yellow lines except
for the loading and P & D parking bays so please tell us where
there are none.
So you need to take a photo showing where you managed to park
with no double-yellow lines, because an adjudicator would
believe the council on this one.
Bixteth Street
On-street Liverpool parking bays allow use of the "Phone and
pay" app.
HTML https://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/find-parking/phone-and-pay/
website
HTML https://www.phoneandpay.co.uk/
However one can also use the ticket machine. As this is an
alternative, why did you not use it ? This is the first thing
the council will come back to you with if you submit
representations that the app was playing up; why didn't you use
the ticket machine ?
You also appeared to have walked off away from your vehicle,
whilst trying to pay, which is also not wise, as if you were
present and a CEO happened along, you would be able to show him
you were in course of paying. We have seen threads a few years
ago where the person who got the ticket had walked to his office
10 minutes away and then tried to park !
Anyway, you need to try to find what the app will provide in
terms of an audit trail of your attempts to pay if you want to
get any chance of success.
#Post#: 10289--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 15, 2023, 4:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OK regarding Covent Garden - this is what I saw and thought that
the double yellows ended. please see attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 10294--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 15, 2023, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OK, so looks like a recent patching job on the tarmac and they
haven't repainted the yellow lines. We would really need to see
how long the section is without the lines, but you may well
struggle getting this overturned. There has been the ocasional
success, but we'd need a photo of the section with no yellow
lines. Double yellows need no signs, the lines are sufficient,
but this means no lines should equal no contravention. What is
against you is that part of your van is over the yellow line.
Its not much but enough for a council to argue about.
#Post#: 10298--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 15, 2023, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks a shambles to me.
Can we start with the PCNs and alleged contraventions and then
look at the evidence, including your account.
PCN 1
Parked in a restricted street during restricted hours.
Whichever way this it cut, at best these grounds are not the
contravention because No Loading is 24/7, therefore it would
have to be 'parked or loading etc...'.
Therefore, irrespective of views about the DYL, what were you
doing while parked? If unloading/collecting etc. then the
contravention did not occur.
PCN2
Parked without displaying ......
But you posted 'I usually pay in the phone and pay app'.
Mutually exclusive. According to the OP, there is no requirement
to display!
However, one of our posters has shown that PbP is permitted, in
which case the contravention is pants.
#Post#: 10381--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 16, 2023, 8:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Looks a shambles to me.
>
> Can we start with the PCNs and alleged contraventions and then
look at the evidence, including your account.
>
> PCN 1
> Parked in a restricted street during restricted hours.
>
> Whichever way this it cut, at best these grounds are not the
contravention because No Loading is 24/7, therefore it would
have to be 'parked or loading etc...'.
> Therefore, irrespective of views about the DYL, what were you
doing while parked? If unloading/collecting etc. then the
contravention did not occur.
>
> PCN2
> Parked without displaying ......
>
> But you posted 'I usually pay in the phone and pay app'.
>
> Mutually exclusive. According to the OP, there is no
requirement to display!
>
> However, one of our posters has shown that PbP is permitted,
in which case the contravention is pants.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK to address your comment - I was not parked in the loading
only area I was parked on the road in front of it on a section
of road that had no double yellow lines. The loading bay in
front of my also had no yellow lines further supporting my choce
of parking as the only sign of yellow lines as the end of the
lines behind my van, I will have to go bac to get images.
Ticket 2 - of course if paying by app no need to display but the
app / bank charge failed causing me to return to the van only to
find that I was too late.
#Post#: 10382--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 16, 2023, 9:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> OK, so looks like a recent patching job on the tarmac and they
haven't repainted the yellow lines. We would really need to see
how long the section is without the lines, but you may well
struggle getting this overturned. There has been the ocasional
success, but we'd need a photo of the section with no yellow
lines. Double yellows need no signs, the lines are sufficient,
but this means no lines should equal no contravention. What is
against you is that part of your van is over the yellow line.
Its not much but enough for a council to argue about.
>
--- End Quote ---
I will go there and get an image.
The loading only had no lines as did the section of road in
front of it where I parked.
Not having lines in front of the patking place gave me the
impression that I could legally park there.
#Post#: 10535--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 18, 2023, 1:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Photos for PCN LV12316578:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/XAml3Dt.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/0r7ZMGb.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ohEKgQ2.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/n5RilOf.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ROVAXSP.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/F8HkLDW.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/I0mNhkj.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/dng0QMZ.jpg
You've not answered the question of what you were doing while
your vehicle was parked there? It's obviously overhanging the
DYLs, even though we can't say to what extent.
Photos for LV11578728:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/dThQiaY.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Tnrw1rm.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/uXZ4w4t.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/a0rIvBF.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QkQeYTC.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3zbWI9K.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ShuaT7C.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/E1z5rYt.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/qTOXQfu.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Uy4gIBc.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/XUOH4sr.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hosAq0w.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/rAWdzI0.jpg
Where were you while trying to buy a session on your phone? The
machine with the location code is right next to the van?
Also the traffic order is The Parking Places and Controlled
Parking Zone (Liverpool) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tpBqnnQZQO7ZNG1AaFX7rTLZn6WFJSs4<br
/>and if you can give us a google street view link to the exact
spot where you parked, we can check whether the road markings
are where they should be.
#Post#: 11338--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 26, 2023, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Photos for PCN LV12316578:
>
>
>
> You've not answered the question of what you were doing while
your vehicle was parked there? It's obviously overhanging the
DYLs, even though we can't say to what extent.
>
> Photos for LV11578728:
>
>
>
> Where were you while trying to buy a session on your phone?
The machine with the location code is right next to the van?
>
> Also the traffic order is The Parking Places and Controlled
Parking Zone (Liverpool) Order 2009
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tpBqnnQZQO7ZNG1AaFX7rTLZn6WFJSs4<br
/>and if you can give us a google street view link to the exact
spot where you parked, we can check whether the road markings
are where they should be.
>
--- End Quote ---
I was going to a timed appointment.
Yes I used the code on that machine next to the van.
I went there Covent garde4n tonight and took pics with few cars.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 11339--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 Council Parking Tickets in one day !
DIR By: RocketRonnieRadox
Date: November 26, 2023, 5:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
more pics
[attachment deleted by admin]
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page