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#Post#: 102819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: jfollows
Date: December 17, 2025, 5:04 am
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SN15 3QQ
Not a station car park on railway land.
#Post#: 102833--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: b789
Date: December 17, 2025, 5:47 am
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Station Hill Car Park, Chippenham (postcode SN15 3QQ) is not a
railway station car park on railway land. It is therefore
treated as ordinary private land rather than land under railway
byelaws. In practical terms, it is “relevant land” for the
purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
In this case, however, you have already identified yourself as
the driver. That means the usual “keeper liability” arguments
under PoFA (i.e. whether the notice is fully PoFA-compliant so
liability can be transferred from an unknown driver to the
keeper) is neutralised, because the operator no longer needs to
rely on PoFA to pursue the driver.
This is still why the location matters. “A train station car
park” is not enough, because many car parks next to stations are
not actually part of the railway estate. Some are railway land
(byelaws apply and the operator’s powers, wording, and
enforcement route are fundamentally different), while others are
separate private sites (a contractual parking charge model).
Until the exact site is identified, we cannot reliably determine
which legal framework applies.
Location also matters for authority and standing. Even where the
driver has been identified, a private parking operator can only
enforce charges if it is authorised by the landholder (or
someone with sufficient proprietary interest) to manage parking
and to issue and enforce parking charges in its own name. That
varies by site and sometimes by different areas of the same
wider complex. Without the precise location, we cannot sensibly
assess whether Napier’s contract covers the relevant land,
whether it had authority to issue charges there, and whether it
has standing to sue.
#Post#: 102835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: gentleman_
Date: December 17, 2025, 5:50 am
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Thanks for all your responses and your patience. I had no prior
idea on how these private car park work.
I'll guess I'll suck it up and pay the fine.
#Post#: 102848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: b789
Date: December 17, 2025, 6:43 am
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What “fine”? I’ll give you £100 for every occurrence of the word
“fine” you can show us in any correspondence you’ve received.
All you have received is a speculative invoice for an alleged
breach of contract by the driver from an unregulated private
parking firm,
Why would you just pay an invoice if you think you don’t owe any
money?
#Post#: 102851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: dave-o
Date: December 17, 2025, 6:54 am
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--- Quote from: gentleman_ link ---
>
> Thanks for all your responses and your patience. I had no
prior idea on how these private car park work.
> I'll guess I'll suck it up and pay the fine.
>
--- End Quote ---
Dear Gent, this can all be a bit confusing at your first time,
as most people who receive something like this assume that it is
a genuine fine rather than an attempt to extract money from you
by a band of crooks.
The folks of this forum can be a bit spiky but are superb at
helping people in your situation, if provided with all the info
they need.
So, please post up the original ticket, any signs at the
location (you posted one but there is probably one at the
entrance too) and any other correspondence you have had.
Preferably as scans of the original doc.
In my opinion it is highly unlikely that you will end up having
to pay them anything, even though you have potentially
identified the driver. This type of scam is intended to cream
money off those who don't know it's a scam, and if you stand
your ground you will most probably be successful.
#Post#: 102854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: gentleman_
Date: December 17, 2025, 7:03 am
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Do you think I could win, considering I stupidly identified
myself as the driver and i'm out of the reasonable grace period
of 10 minutes?
Napier will most definitely take the matter to court, so my
options are:
1. I pay £60 now
2. I pay £100 after IAS rejects my appeal (they almost certainly
will)
3. The matter will be escalated to court, with the possibily of
paying over £300 in case I lose.
I think I have put myself in a position where there's a
considerable chance of me losing the claim?
Forgive my english, but I'm not native and jargon such as this
is difficult for me. I understand you're trying to help me and I
really appreciate this, I'm not being ungrateful. I just think
my chances to avoid the charge are rather slim.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/k4tS8Xjs/IMG-20251217-130009.jpg
#Post#: 102858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 17, 2025, 7:23 am
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so to clarify you were parked in the car park directly next to
Sainsbury's?
#Post#: 102859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: gentleman_
Date: December 17, 2025, 7:26 am
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yes, parked exactly there
#Post#: 102866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: b789
Date: December 17, 2025, 8:05 am
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You have already identified yourself as the driver, so there is
no value in arguing about keeper liability or PoFA. Napier do
not need PoFA if they can pursue you as the driver on a
contractual basis.
On the face of it, their paperwork and the signage are at least
broadly aligned. The sign makes it clear that the “duration of
stay” is calculated from the point of entry to the point of
exit, and it states a £100 parking charge for breach of any
term. The NtK then alleges an “overstay of paid for parking
session” and relies on ANPR entry and exit times to calculate
the total stay. So the NtK is not obviously pursuing a different
basis from the sign; it is applying the sign’s “time on site”
model.
However, there may still be mileage in a contract-based
challenge, but it is fact-dependent and it is not a technical
PoFA point. The strongest potential angles are:
1. Incorporation and prominence of the key term. If the
entry-to-exit timing term was not sufficiently prominent at the
entrance and/or was not reasonably readable before you became
committed to parking, you can argue that this key term was not
properly incorporated into any contract.
2. Unfairness and lack of a reasonable means to perform the
contract. Your central point is that you paid for four hours and
only overstayed by around twenty minutes, and the payment system
apparently jumped from four hours to twenty-four hours. If, at
the material time, there was no reasonable mechanism to extend
the session or pay the additional time, and this was not clearly
explained on the signage, you can argue that the way the terms
operate is unfair because it exposes a consumer to a £100 charge
for a modest overrun when the consumer has no practical way to
comply.
3. Authority and standing. Even if you were the driver, Napier
still have to have proper landholder authority to offer parking
on those terms and to enforce charges in their own name, and
they must prove the vehicle was in the part of the site covered
by their signage and contract.
If you want to run this as a contract dispute, the focus should
not be “PoFA” but evidence. You need photos of the entrance
signage, the payment machine/app screen showing the tariff
options at the time, and the terms displayed on-site. The
argument then becomes: the key terms were not properly brought
to your attention and/or the payment system and terms were not
fair or transparent because you could not reasonably pay for the
small additional time needed.
Napier usually use the utter incompetents at Gladstones to issue
their claims, which means you can guarantee that they will not
comply with CPR16.4(1)(a) which always leaves the claim open to
a strike out.
#Post#: 102985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Napier parking - overstayed 20 minutes and train delay
DIR By: dave-o
Date: December 18, 2025, 4:13 am
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--- Quote from: gentleman_ link ---
>
>
> 1. I pay £60 now
> 2. I pay £100 after IAS rejects my appeal (they almost
certainly will)
> 3. The matter will be escalated to court, with the possibily
of paying over £300 in case I lose.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Where did you get the £300 figure from? This seems unlikely to
me.
Having been in your situation a few times, in all honestly it is
probably less hassle to pay the £60. The court process is
simple, but also long and drawn out. But for me it's not just
about money. It's the principle. I consider that if I give
them £60 they will use this to fund their scam, approaching new
landowners citing all their successful operations, sending more
threatening letters to other marks. Each £60 probably funds the
harassment of another 10 people. Some of these will be people
who would never even think of checking a forum and discovering
the truth. Perhaps older people who would always assume that
this kind of thing is legitimate.
If everyone took every "ticket" all the way to court, these
bottom-feeders would very quickly go out of business. So i see
it as my duty to challenge each one, personally.
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