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#Post#: 101992--------------------------------------------------
London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction - Salusbury
Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 11, 2025, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good afternoon ,
I have received a PCN for a yellow box junction at the location
mentioned. I have not worked out how to upload the video but
it's worse than I recalled at the time. A vehicle enters
Salusbury Road from my right and as the traffic moves off South
it stops with the vehicle stopping in the space I was
anticipating to be free.
I have done some research on this (very useful) forum and note
that many of the appeals focus on Section 4 (eight) of the
relevant legislation and the difference in timeframes of 'date
of notice' and 'date of service' effectively creating two
distinct deadlines that contradict each other.
I have attached the PCN and hoping the collective subject matter
experts can comment as to whether I have a case based on this.
Additionally, the website under Representation Grounds only
provides one box entitled 'General Representation' and not the
statutory ones included on the PCN.
The box junction extends beyond the junction on the nearside
outside Starbucks but I don't know if that's sufficient for a
representation as it doesn't conform to the regulation design
(Traffic signs and something but I can't recall the exact
legislation).
PCN via One Drive
HTML https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQDEz04gzYJNSJRiIw6siDCoASqsUOPxFaJbkfHVFJL_2OY?e=zeZd0N
HTML https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQAnRXBTIy6cT6zM9aUrNQ7uAU1QHZnrRoTWtw0I15aHBdA?e=AkZKGb<br
/>
HTML https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQAFzuj7ZrEXRJ1GWDLrMRMkAewR7nA9nf7fzR2udzdertA?e=hBgQjr
Google Location
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/qf2DVeikddgS4cdj7
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/T6WajmEK86JwV24p9
The video may work from here;
HTML https://brent.tarantoportal.com/PCN/PCN/ViewImages
BT27358726
WD08HNL
The video is pretty damning and I'm rather embarrased TBH! But
the moped managed to get round.....
I have looked at London Tribunals 2250161512 and 2250426286 and
crossing my fingers that there's a loophole that I can exploit.
Many thanks,
James
#Post#: 102000--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 11, 2025, 6:43 am
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See the first link in my profile re the PCN. Also screenshot
their reps. page before you do anything else. I agree re the
video.
I acted in the two cases cited. The first one is irrelevant. The
second one may be if you follow my first link. I'll do a draft
later WHEN you can say you understand the point. ;D
#Post#: 102039--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 11, 2025, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the prompt reply!
I have not made any reps - just deciding how to proceed.
I understand the argument - whether I can communicate this is
another matter. I'll try..
Date of notice (DofN) is 04/12/2025.
Date of Service (DofS) is two days further on so 06/12/2025.
To pay I have until 01/01/2025 (or 18/12/2025 for the discounted
rate) taking into account the DoN.
Reps by 03/01/2026 taking that as DofS.
BUT, the paragraph starting 'If you fail to pay the PCN or make
reps' uses the DofS implying that if I paid on 02/01/2026 I'd be
okay when actually I'm outside of the window in the legislation.
I'm guessing the point is which deadline is correct.
#Post#: 102320--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 13, 2025, 9:54 am
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Hi, Sorry for posting at the weekend. I've yet to make my reps -
I'm assuming the reps you're referring to are the inevitable NoR
reps by Brent that will surely follow my initial
representations.
And have I grasped the concept of Section 4(8)?
Many thanks,
James.
#Post#: 102325--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 13, 2025, 10:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon, the only reps so far from Brent are on page 2 of the
PCN - this should be the second One Drive link in my original
post. Brent list multiple statutory grounds but they don't seem
to then ask to select just one which I believe was an issue with
I believe, H&F. The website has just one tick box titled
'general representation' and no mention of the statutory ones
within the PCN.
And I've seen the smileys slider now.....
Many thanks,
James.
#Post#: 102512--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 15, 2025, 9:02 am
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Good afternoon,
Refreshing this after the weekend - is my grasp of Section 4(8)
correct?
Unsure if Brent's web page is compliant with its lack of
statutory defences .
KR,
James
#Post#: 102561--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 15, 2025, 12:53 pm
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Back later.
#Post#: 102569--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: December 15, 2025, 1:58 pm
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All received.
I don't seem to have grasped smileys though!
#Post#: 110117--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: February 17, 2026, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good afternoon,
As anticipated , Brent have rejected my appeal. I appealed on
two counts; non compliant YBJ due to size and the wording of the
PCN regarding paying or appealling and the conflagration in
lumping both options together when the legislation deals with
Dates of Notice and Dates of Service thereby creating TWO
defined timeframes but Brent's PCN stating 'if you fail to do
either' thereby creating ONE date. My initial reading of their
Rejection is they've only dealt with the YBJ and not the second
point. Unless the phrase 'correctly issued' constitutes a
rebuttal.
I'll post the details of my appeal and scans of Brent's
rejection for your collective thoughts.
TIA,
James
#Post#: 110118--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Brent - 31 - Yellow box junction -
Salusbury Rd j/w Hartland Rd NW6
DIR By: JimmyM
Date: February 17, 2026, 12:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's my appeal grounds;
I would like to appeal against PCN, ref BT27358726, for an
alleged contravention on 28th November 2025 on Salusbury Road
j/w Hartland Road NW6. Firstly, the box junction itself. The
Traffic Signs Manual – Chapter 5 – Road Markings (2018) deals
with the setting out and design of yellow box junctions in
Section 8. A yellow box junction is assigned Diagram 1043 and
this is used throughout S8 of the manual. I refer specifically
to fig 8.6 within the manual which deals with the setting out of
the road markings. The junction at the site of the alleged
contravention has a curved kerb line as Hartland Road narrows
towards the junction with Salusbury Road. This has the effect of
narrowing the road to a single carriageway and this is achieved
with the paving on the NE and SE kerbs extending out into the
carriageway to narrow it. The kerb line follows and arc and
extends to the east kerb of Salusbury Road. The shape is a 90
degree segment. I refer you to the attached picture showing
Starbucks and the two black pillars on the SE kerb. The yellow
box junction extends some 2.3m from the black pillar where The
Big Issue seller is seated and a total of 4.3m from the
mid-point of the curved kerb line. Fig 8.6 in the manual shows
the extent of a YBJ – with either a cut out or extending from a
mid-point of the curved kerb. The YBJ is too large and has been
extended which takes it 4.3m beyond the junction. As a
proportion of the total size of the junction the extra 4.3m
represents approximately 20%. It is not compliant with Chapter
5, Section 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual - Road Markings (2018).
Secondly, the wording of the PCN is confusing and far from clear
as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8
) (v) of
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)
that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28
day period, an increased charge may be payable. As it refers to
payment this clearly refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii): (iii) that
the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of
28 days beginning with the date of the notice; Therefore, it
follows that the statement (the last paragraph on page 1 of the
PCN): "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make
representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning
with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of
£240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its
omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was
included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two
periods using the word "or" which many would view as being
conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be
interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the
missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be
interpreted disjunctively. Simply, payment deals with Date of
Notice and Representations are calculated from Date of Service
which is deemed 2 days after the Date of Notice. The ‘If you
fail’ statement solely mentions ‘Date of Service’ which leads to
confusion as to the REAL date that payment needs to be made. In
light of the incompliant box junction and the missing mandatory
information within the PCN I would be grateful if you could
please cancel this PCN.
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