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#Post#: 111426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 27, 2026, 3:11 pm
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I'm also reading that 10 lines of text is considered 3-4 seconds
of reading time and that conditions such as days or times
restrictions apply increases the processing time as you would
need to read, process and then check the time. Thus such a sign
would fail the 'safely reading at a glance test'.
Placing these directly on the corner of a junction where you
will have cars turning in or coming out and demanding your
attention is also not good practice, especially if the path or
size of the vehicles can easily block direct line of sight to
the sign.
#Post#: 111430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 27, 2026, 4:13 pm
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So on this thread you go through a lot of text on the signs and
their unreadability by a driver in a moving car, yet looking
through, I see no photos of these signs nor any GSV link to the
locations. How can we advise on something we can't see ?
#Post#: 111432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 27, 2026, 4:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Here you go:
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/H4fLsLS_xl.png
#Post#: 111436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 27, 2026, 4:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
GSV link ? Or is GSV not sufficiently up-to-date to show the
restriction ?
#Post#: 111458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 28, 2026, 3:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately the signs don't appear to be there on GSV. This
suggests it's a fairly recent restriction.
Let's work with what we do have.
The text on the sign says:
PEDESTRIAN
and CYCLE
ZONE
[red circle sign with car and motorbike inside it]
Mon-Fri
8.15-9.15am
2.30-3.45pm
[Additional lower sign]
Except
[Something something]
and permit
holders
So 10 lines of text, including 2 sets of times, one set of day
related restrictions.
I'm not contesting the sign makes perfect sense if you can
actually read it and take it in. There was apparently a warning
sign earlier on the road. Blue background and 10 lines of white
text. So I must have driven past 4 of these signs (2 sets) and
missed them all. I have no other 'missed sign' related
contraventions to my name in over 20 years of driving. I can
read. It's not difficult to get me to comply with a road sign.
You can also see the van encroaching out of the junction and my
car going around it. I don't know what that van was doing like
that, but they were turning into my road. It's the only time in
my life I have ever driven on this road. Gloomy, rainy morning.
Great test scenario for whether these signs are usable and
effective really in my opinion.
#Post#: 111466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 28, 2026, 4:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Really we need to see the approach to the sign and how the sign
appears and the actual sign itself.
You have valid points on amount of text to read and absorb, but
I expect this is a 20mph zone, so that lessens the point as
you're going slowly enough to read the sign. The sign is the
usual "Flying Motorbike" sign that has been around for donkey's
years, but now in widespread use in London. You also mention an
advance sign, so can we see that.
Sorry about all this, but unless we can see what you saw, its
very difficult to advise on an appeal text. I get the impression
you are new to London, because these timed closed streets have
been around now for several years.
#Post#: 111469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 28, 2026, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We'll...I did not see any of the signs ;D
But yes, we want to assess them fully for what they are.
Best I can do is send image of the map provided by Ealing
council in their rejection notice. This is the only evidence I
have that the warning sign exists. Note the final entry sign is
a bit different on their map to the one it situ (it's 9 lines
whereas the actual one has 10 lines and 2 additional words).
[img width=600]
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/oF5TTb3_xl.JPG[/img]
#Post#: 111472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 28, 2026, 4:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Obviously when we see both signs shown like this whilst calmly
sipping a cup of tea in front of our computer screen, it all
seems very clear and above board.
#Post#: 111496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 28, 2026, 6:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FH123 link ---
>
> Obviously when we see both signs shown like this whilst calmly
sipping a cup of tea in front of our computer screen, it all
seems very clear and above board.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, no, even though it may seem so. Signage giving
instructions and warnings to motorists must first of all be
"traffic signs" as defined in The Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions 2016. That is a basic requirement. Then what
is erected must pass the "adequacy" test. This is a requirement
in Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
So two tests must be passed. In your case the advance warning
sign is not a traffic sign. If it had been a geographical
representation of the junction ahead with the left turn marked
as No Entry it would be part of the signage indicating the
restriction. For the signs themselves, they may comply with the
TSRGD 2016, but if there is only one of them, it may fail the
'adequacy' test. However, 'adequate' is subjective. Your
'inadequate' is the councils 'adequate' so the only place to
test this is at London Tribunals where the adjudicator will
decide one way or the other.
Here are the two sets of regulations:-
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made
and
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
So if you are prepared to stand your ground and take them to
London Tribunals based on the above, you could win, but of
course it is not guaranteed, and you must risk the full PCN
penalty. If you win you pay nothing, if you lose, you pay the
PCN penalty, but there are no other costs.
#Post#: 111519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing PCN - 53J restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone - Allenby Rd Southall & Oldfield Ln South
Greenf
DIR By: FH123
Date: February 28, 2026, 8:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes I understand. Is there a reasonable chance of winning at a
tribunal? Are they impartial? Do they listen to sound, logical
arguments?
BTW I work in human factors information design. As an expert in
that field I can say a multi line text instruction at a junction
will never, ever pass an objective adequacy test. i.e. out of
100 human motorists with clean licenses, how many would notice,
read, comprehend and make the correct decision whilst driving
down that road for the first time under the same conditions. No
doubt some would, but I would not expect this to be the norm.
That is why I quoted the human factors study above. It says
signs should be visual and 2-3 lines maximum of text at 30 mph.
Otherwise not only are they unreadable, but become a hazard for
any motorist trying to comply.
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