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#Post#: 101779--------------------------------------------------
PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: john1234567
Date: December 10, 2025, 1:02 am
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Got a funny one I think I should be appealing on behalf of a
family member.
The only thing stated on the letter is "unauthorised parking" -
so to try and figure out what they mean I would have to visit
the store and look at the boards displayed at the car park.
Can anyone guess what it is they might be referring to or
recommend a best course of action.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/67p3X8DC/wingyip.jpg
#Post#: 101782--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: jfollows
Date: December 10, 2025, 1:35 am
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I don’t have a clue what this means, but the notice does not
comply with the legislation
(
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4)
which
is required to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the
registered keeper.
Specifically, but not limited to
--- Quote ---
>
> 9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper
for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance
with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
>
> (2)The notice must—
>
> (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was
parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
--- End Quote ---
So make sure that any contact is made as the registered keeper
and the driver is not identified.
#Post#: 101797--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: john1234567
Date: December 10, 2025, 3:52 am
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I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a
debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the
second route is often long and complicated.
When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they
have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark.
I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised
parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another
shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is
situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other
was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.
But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking" says
nothing to me.
#Post#: 101802--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: Dave65
Date: December 10, 2025, 4:15 am
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Can you show us the back of the PPN?
A photo of the signage would help.
#Post#: 101816--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: InterCity125
Date: December 10, 2025, 5:25 am
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--- Quote from: john1234567 link ---
>
> I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a
debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the
second route is often long and complicated.
>
> When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they
have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark.
>
> I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised
parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another
shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is
situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other
was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.
>
> But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking"
says nothing to me.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's a fly trap site.
They will probably try and make the driver responsible for the
actions of the passengers using T&Cs along the lines of,
"Parking only permitted for customers using Wing Yip" or similar
wording.
Certain sites with 'good turnover' are monitored by dedicated
staff because these sites yield such good profits.
You will defeat them.
I understand your comments regarding 'using the process' but
unfortunately this is not the way to beat them.
To win, you have to beat them at their own game. They aren't
using normal parking laws here, they are instead using (breach
of) contract law.
Their NtK is not PoFA compliant and as such there can never be
any keeper liability. They don't know who the driver is and you
are under no obligation to tell them.
If you can, show us the back of the notice. There could be
further procedural errors on their part.
#Post#: 101836--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: john1234567
Date: December 10, 2025, 6:33 am
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Here's the rear of the form
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Fky7dLV7/1000021978.jpg
#Post#: 101905--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: b789
Date: December 10, 2025, 12:47 pm
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--- Quote from: john1234567 link ---
>
> I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a
debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the
second route is often long and complicated.
>
> When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they
have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark.
>
> I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised
parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another
shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is
situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other
was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.
>
> But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking"
says nothing to me.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sorry, but which planet have you just arrived from? No
initial appeal, no matter how well formed and logical, will ever
be accepted by any unregulated private parking firm. Also,
because you are dealing with the bottom-swelling end of the
private parking firm spectrum, the odds of a secondary appeal
to the kangaroo court that is the IAS is extremely unlikely to
be successful either.
You have come here for advice and your first reaction is to
suggest that the advice you have received to this point is not
correct. You either follow the advice exactly as provided here
and you will never pay a penny to UKPS, even is it means that
the only route is prolonged although not intensive or you FUBAR
it and deal with the consequences.
This location is a very well known money spinner for UKPS. They
make a fortune from the majority of the low-hanging fruit on the
gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of
ignorance and fear. However, from mine and others experience on
here, they are easily defeated once they take the process to a
county court claim and with our advice, defend it and then it is
eventually struck out or discontinued.
However, feel free to try your own way and waste all the time
and effort to achieve the exact same ending. I will bet you £100
right now that you will not get this cancelled at any appeal
stage. It will only be ended after they go through the
intimidation process of making a county court claim and
eventually give in just before they have to pay the £27 trial
fee, about 4 weeks before the hearing is scheduled at the
defendants local county court which would be in around 9-12+
months from now.
This is all about contract law and nothing else. Unless you know
how to argue "unauthorised" parking and can evidence the signage
that fails to offer any contract with the driver, then good luck
and please let us know how you get on.
#Post#: 101912--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: john1234567
Date: December 10, 2025, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm a veteran appellant, not my first rodeo. Not had to pay any
PCNs of my own, bus lane fine, etc in 25 years. Won in court
over a speeding charge as well.
I'm not appealing my own PCN here so that adds a new dimension
in the sense that elderly residents can't cope with the stress
of receiving reams of debt recovery letters through the door.
On a previous occasion when that business started they gave up
and paid £125 or something just to make it go away.
It is nice to know what you all think about this situation and
I'm glad to hear your opinions on how it can be dealt with.
I have tried the "compliant paperwork" defence before and it
didn't work, had to try something else.
So what we'll probably do is submit an honest appeal and if that
doesn't work we'll pay the fine.
#Post#: 101915--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 10, 2025, 1:40 pm
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If the recipient of the parking charge notice (worth noting is
is not a "fine", despite feeling much like one) is simply going
to pay up when their appeal is rejected, there's not much
further advice we can offer, other than:
- Make sure the appeal is made before the discount period
expires. This period doesn't matter if they're going to fight
the matter, but if they're just going to pay, you might as well
avoid them losing even more money
- Spend the intervening time trying your best to convince the
supermarket to intervene
#Post#: 101948--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
DIR By: b789
Date: December 11, 2025, 3:13 am
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Then you have a duty to try and explain to the bewildered
recipient of the speculative invoice from a known scammer, that
there should be no "stress" in simply receiving "reams" (an
exaggeration) of useless debt recovery letters from powerless
third party debt collectors. You simply explain that a debt
collector is not a party to any contract allegedly breached by
the driver. A debt collector has zero standing to do anything.
Their only power is to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit
on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.
If the recipient has any cognitive function left, they should
understand that simply giving in and paying a speculative
invoice because it has a fantastic, one time offer of a 40%
discount, is not a reason to just pay it. "Just paying it" makes
them part of the problem, not the solution. Funding a scam, even
if "just to make it go away" marks them as mugs, ripe for
further scamming.
Please ask what is it about a useless and powerless debt
recovery letter that "scares" them so much that they are
prepared to fund a scammer? If it is simply ignorance and fear
of the process because it is unfamiliar to them, then you can
give them the following information which is probably the main
reason that the majority of victims of these scams end up just
paying:
--- Quote ---
> These unregulated private parking firms and their pet debt
collectors thrive on one thing: the public’s ignorance of how
County Court claims and CCJs actually work. They know that if
they can make you believe that “a claim” or a “debt recovery”
letter somehow wrecks your credit rating, you will panic and pay
them. The gullible tree is full of low-hanging fruit, and they
make a very good living shaking it.
>
> Here is the reality, which you should read and take a “life
lesson” from...
>
> A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private firm is not a
fine. It is just a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of
contract by the driver. At that stage, nothing touches your
credit file.
>
> If you are not successful in appealing the PCN – and appeals
are almost never successful at the initial stage and rarely at
the secondary, supposedly “independent” (but not) appeal – most
low-hanging fruit do not understand that those decisions are not
binding on them and they should never just pay. Many do,
however, because they are ignorant of the process and fearful of
imaginary consequences.
>
> If you then get “debt recovery” letters from so-called debt
collectors, those are just more speculative invoices dressed up
in scary language designed to prey on your ignorance and fear.
Debt collectors have no legal powers whatsoever to come to your
door, take goods, or report anything to credit reference
agencies. You could receive fifty of those letters and your
credit rating would be unchanged.
>
> As part of the modus operandi of these unregulated firms, the
next formal step is usually a Letter of Claim (LoC). That is
just a threat that they may start a County Court claim. Even
then, your credit record is still untouched. It is simply a
threat of legal action, not the result of it. Just more attempts
to intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into
paying out of ignorance and fear.
>
> Only if they go ahead and issue a County Court claim do you
enter the court (judicial) process. A Claim Form comes from the
court, not from a useless and powerless debt collector. Getting
a claim issued against you does not, by itself, affect your
credit rating. A claim is simply an allegation that you owe
money. You have the right to defend it. As long as you read your
post, acknowledge the claim in time, and either defend it or
settle it, your credit file remains untouched.
>
> A County Court Judgment (CCJ) only arises if the court
actually makes a judgment against you. That happens either
because you defended and were unsuccessful at a hearing, or
because you ignored the claim and the parking firm got judgment
in default. Even then, you still have a crucial safety net that
the low-hanging fruit do not realise exists. If you pay the full
judgment sum within 30 days of the date of judgment, the CCJ is
not registered on your credit file. It is expunged completely
from the record. It is as if it never happened as far as lenders
are concerned.
>
> A CCJ only appears on your credit record if you fail to pay
within that 30-day window. That is the point at which it gets
recorded and can affect your ability to obtain credit. Up to
that point, no amount of tickets, no stack of debt recovery
letters, no Letter of/Before Claim, and not even the issuing of
a County Court claim has any impact on your credit history.
>
> Bailiffs are a separate step again. They cannot simply be sent
because you have ignored an unregulated private parking invoice
or a useless debt recovery letter. Bailiffs (enforcement agents)
only become relevant after there is a CCJ and it has not been
paid.
>
> For most smaller PCN CCJs, it is not even worth the creditor’s
time and cost to instruct bailiffs, especially when the amount
is under £600 and stuck in the slower County Court enforcement
system. But the key point is this: no unpaid CCJ, no lawful
bailiff.
>
> So when people say things like “I had a debt recovery letter
so I might not get a mortgage now” or “if I defend, I will get a
CCJ,” they are simply wrong. It is precisely that ignorance and
fear that these firms trade on. They rely on ordinary motorists
incorrectly assuming that a red-letter demand automatically
means ruined credit and bailiffs at the door.
>
> There is nothing in the advice given here that will affect
your credit record. On the contrary, proper advice is what keeps
you away from CCJs. If you engage with the process, defend where
appropriate, and, in the extremely rare instance where you are
unsuccessful defending a claim, pay any judgment within 30 days,
your credit file will remain completely unaffected and no
bailiff will lawfully darken your doorstep over a private
parking charge.
>
> These companies rely on being able to intimidate the
low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
--- End Quote ---
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