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#Post#: 10142--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: greentowel
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:11 am
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Thank you for the detailed response and draft MrChips, that is
very helpful.
The car is a VW Golf, the width without mirrors is 1.79 meters
and with mirrors, 2.02m, so 1.905m counting just one of the
mirrors.
I will send the representation and will update with TfL's
response.
Thank you!
#Post#: 10145--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:18 am
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No problem.
It's always good to get a consensus view so if you can wait a
little longer I'd be inclined to see if others are happy with
the revised draft or have any further comments/suggestions.
Hopefully you spotted I left an "X" in the draft for you to
substitute with the true width.
#Post#: 10150--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:56 am
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My only issue or maybe worry is a better term is that if you
stop the video at 1.27 then with proper left hand steering then
the driver could easily take the left lane. To me you have to
emphasize the bike on your left that stopped you the bike is
clearly visible coming up your inside that is the reason for not
going directly into the left lane
#Post#: 10152--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 14, 2023, 6:16 am
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My take is that you intended to take the left hand lane, were
steering to the left hand lane but felt compelled to stop due to
a moped on the inside who seemed to be undertaking or about to.
The stop was solely so as to avoid an accident and possibly
wiping out a rider.
It should be noted that the moped was not stationary when I
stopped so one leg of the contravention, ie stopping due to
stationary traffic is not complete.
I would not mention the bus unless it is to dismiss it.... the
bus was stationary but that was not the reason for the stop.
#Post#: 10157--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: greentowel
Date: November 14, 2023, 7:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Stopping the video at 1:27, you are right that I could have
easily taken the left lane, the same can be said at 1:25, when I
enter the box. At that point however I think I was not aware
that the bus was going to come to a full stop, the traffic
lights on the right-hand side of the road where behind the bus
and the left-hand side ones had not come into my view yet. At
that point all three vehicles are also moving. The bus stops at
1:29, from 1:29 to 1:32 you can see me trying to make it to the
gap left by the bus, at 1:32 I stop. The mopped had already
stopped at 1:30, though, and at 1:33 it starts moving again,
undertaking me.
I don't know whether it matters, but if I made representations
saying I stopped because of the mopped, can't they easily then
say why didn't I move after the mopped undertook me?, from 1:37
to 1:43 in the video.
The combination of me not being aware the bus was going to stop
and the mopped being so close behind me and so close to the left
side of the road, as if going to undertake me, meant I took a
wider than necessary turn to the left. Then the bus stopped and
given that I had taken a wide turn I was positioned in such a
way that, at the time, I didn't think I could get to the gap
without hitting the bus or reversing, the video shows that maybe
I could have gone through without reversing, but that is not
that clear to me. I did consider reversing, but I thought that
was more dangerous than just staying put (and more likely to
lead to a PCN oddly enough).
#Post#: 10158--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 14, 2023, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Your honesty does you credit but will see you losing.
In effect you are saying you followed the bus into the box and
stopped because it did.
That is the contravention cited and fully made out.
The evidence is what will be used to prove or disprove the
contravention so work on what can be seen, not what you know.
The video shows you entering the box behind the bus but seeming
to be steering for the left hand lane.
The video shows you braking as you were steering.
It also shows a moving moped sneaking up the inside while you
were braking.
So maybe should be phrased as was stopping due to the moped to
be exact.
TBH I regard it as the stutter dance polite people do when
trying to pass each other in a doorway.
Step left, step right, stop, after you, no after you.
At the end of the day, it is either grab the discount or be
ready to take this to adjudication where an adjudicator will
look at the video, listen to what you have to say and decide.
IMO, challenge now with the best light you can put on the
evidence and that will be on the table at adjudication.
The less you try to justify each little movement, the less there
is for anyone to pick holes in.
#Post#: 10159--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 14, 2023, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I make representations against PCN number xxxxxxxxxxx on the
grounds that
There was no contravention of a prescribed order.
As i turned left into great west rd from windmill rd my intended
route was into the left hand lane. On checking my mirrors in
preparation for the turn I became aware of a motorbike
approaching on my left preventing me from continuing as planned.
I opened up the steering allowing my vehicle to drift slightly
to the right in order to prevent a probable accident with the
motorbike,(they undertaking recklessly)
In preventing this potential accident i had to come to a stop
within the confines of the box marking, this stop was however in
order to avoid an accident. NOT because of stationary vehicles
as the regulations regulations require
As such no contravention occurred and the PCN should now be
cancelled
Try this The idea is not to overthink it and say to much but let
TfL do the work ( they will reject anything you say anyway so
you are just setting the field)
If it comes to appealing to the tribunal i will represent you if
you wish
#Post#: 10163--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 14, 2023, 9:48 am
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--- Quote ---
> On checking my mirrors in preparation for the turn
--- End Quote ---
Better to say
"as I entered the box turning left I became aware......
#Post#: 10176--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TfL - Entering a box junction - Great West Road /
Windmill Road
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 14, 2023, 11:20 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote]On checking my mirrors in preparation for the turn
--- End Quote ---
Better to say
"as I entered the box turning left I became aware......
[/quote]
I used that term as it indicates good practice but am not
particularly bother whatever the Op feels comfortable with
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