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#Post#: 102583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: andy_foster Date: December 15, 2025, 4:27 pm
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Assuming that the logs of the displayed variable speed limits
are accurate and reliable, it should have been relatively
trivial to check which cases would have been triggered by an
incorrect implementation of the 10 second delay.
Also, we were "reliably" informed that whilst the legislation
mandated no enforcement within 10 seconds of the limit first
being displayed, because the relevant authorities were all kind
and helpful people, they operated a minute's grace.
Whilst the story in the Daily Wail is the most coherent and
plausible purported version of events (as opposed to mere
educated guesses) I've seen so far, it leave more questions to
be answered (which is not the same as begging the question) than
it purportedly answers. On this occasion, I'm not accusing them
of poor journalism, but I do think that there's more to this
than we've been told.
#Post#: 102587--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: NewJudge Date: December 15, 2025, 5:00 pm
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There was a case on here a few weeks ago, which I cannot
immediately find, where the driver was absolutely adamant that
he must have been snapped between the time he passed under the
gantry (when he says “50” was displayed) and the time the photo
was taken a few yards beyond he gantry (when he was accused of
breaking a “40” limit). It ran on for a bit.
We were all adamant he was mistaken. He may well one of the
victims of this.
#Post#: 102594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: andy_foster Date: December 15, 2025, 5:44 pm
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/please-help-with-unfair-speeding-ticket/
We were all adamant that absent any independent evidence he
would struggle to convince the court that the machine wasn't
working properly.
We were all adamant that the machine not working properly was
not the only possible explanation.
Some thought that he was mistaken
#Post#: 102595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: ivanleo Date: December 15, 2025, 5:49 pm
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The advice given was correct as far as I can see, and the courts
that imposed convictions on those who turned up with no evidence
to the contrary were not wrong either.
And I somehow doubt that even the most expensive of experts
would have found this issue. To prevent something like this from
happening, Parliament would need to introduce a right for the
defence to audit the source code of the camera software, as I
don't see a court ordering disclosure of that code just for the
sake of a defendant's fishing expedition.
#Post#: 102605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: facade Date: December 16, 2025, 2:49 am
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[quote author=andy_foster link=topic=9042.msg102583#msg102583
date=1765837673]
Assuming that the logs of the displayed variable speed limits
are accurate and reliable, it should have been relatively
trivial to check which cases would have been triggered by an
incorrect implementation of the 10 second delay.
Also, we were "reliably" informed that whilst the legislation
mandated no enforcement within 10 seconds of the limit first
being displayed, because the relevant authorities were all kind
and helpful people, they operated a minute's grace.
Whilst the story in the Daily Wail is the most coherent and
plausible purported version of events (as opposed to mere
educated guesses) I've seen so far, it leave more questions to
be answered (which is not the same as begging the question) than
it purportedly answers. On this occasion, I'm not accusing them
of poor journalism, but I do think that there's more to this
than we've been told.
[/quote]
Reading between the lines, and remembering the poster who had
several witnesses (but unfortunately no camera footage) that the
limit must have reduced when he was so close to the camera that
no-one in the car saw it, yet the timings on the photo said it
had been in force over an hour, I suspect that the enforcement
timing is counting clock cycles or milliseconds rather than
seconds from when the limit is triggered, and the "grace period"
is actually a fraction of a second. (maybe there is a maximum
time that rolls back to zero when it is reached every few
seconds)
Otherwise, as you say it would be trivial to spot from the
photograph that when a limit drops (the only possible case that
would be affected) the limit had been in force for less than the
grace period.
Unusual that no-one posted here with dashcam footage showing the
limit change (or the higher limit until it went out of view, the
flashes and a photo claiming the limit was in force for hours.)
A request for the logs from VSL control would show that the
timing was way out and cast doubt on every photograph (If they
can't even measure time correctly, how can we trust the speed
measurement?), hence they have cancelled every ticket.
#Post#: 102621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: andy_foster Date: December 16, 2025, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=facade link=topic=9042.msg102605#msg102605
date=1765874960][quote author=facade
link=topic=9042.msg102605#msg102605 date=1765874960]
Otherwise, as you say it would be trivial to spot from the
photograph that when a limit drops (the only possible case that
would be affected) the limit had been in force for less than the
grace period.[/quote]
Please don't "agree" with things I never said.
[quote]A request for the logs from VSL control would show that
the timing was way out and cast doubt on every photograph (If
they can't even measure time correctly, how can we trust the
speed measurement?), hence they have cancelled every ticket.
[/quote]
Drugs are bad, m'kay?
If the timing on the logs is way out, there is no meaningful
evidence that the speed limit shown in the photo had been shown
for more than 10 seconds, in other words that the limit shown in
the photo was enforceable at the time of the alleged offence.
#Post#: 102692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: mickR Date: December 16, 2025, 12:27 pm
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it also appears that plod knew about this issue at the beginning
of October.
it would be interesting to know how the issue was found,
possibly someone in the same position the OP in the other thread
but who had dash cam evidence?
#Post#: 102695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: andy_foster Date: December 16, 2025, 1:10 pm
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Well, some bloke called Mick posted a link, earlier in this
thread, to a case that was broadly consistent with what we are
now being told.
It would be interesting to know who knew what when, and how much
of an attempt was made to Hillsborough the issue. Although, the
more interesting an issue is based on the perceived likelihood
of mendacity on the part of those higher up the food chain, the
less likely we'll ever hear the full story.
You do however raise an interesting point (albeit by
implication) - if there is a co-ordinated response from police
forces nationally, what do the NPCC and RSS Ltd (assuming that
unlike ACPO they are still operating under their original name)
know and what documents can we obtain under the FOIA?
ISTR RSS claiming not to be a public body for the purposes of
the FOIA - how accurate my recollection is and whether that
argument went anywhere is another matter. RSS at the time, AIUI,
were a wholly owned subsiduary of ACPO Ltd ( a private company),
whose purpose (RSS that is, not ACPO) to advise subscribed
police forces on matters concerning motoring prosecutions, and
providing expert witnesses to impartially argue that the
prescribed devices were infallible.
If anyone fancies firing off a few FOIA requests, it is far from
certain that we will get anything meaningful back, but the
advice presumably given by RSS to the NPCC is likely to be about
as full a story as we could conceivably hope to read.
#Post#: 102737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: ivanleo Date: December 16, 2025, 4:40 pm
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RSS Ltd has been struck off the register of companies:
HTML https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02457707/filing-history
#Post#: 102738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cancelled speeding NIP
By: DWMB2 Date: December 16, 2025, 4:42 pm
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[quote author=cp8759 link=topic=9042.msg102737#msg102737
date=1765924833]
RSS Ltd has been struck off the register of companies:
HTML https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02457707/filing-history
[/quote]
Think that's a different one - Road Safety Support Ltd are still
going -
HTML https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06176687
HTML https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06176687
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