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#Post#: 100101--------------------------------------------------
Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited. PCN
Wording Appeal?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: November 27, 2025, 12:01 pm
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Hi all,
Doing this to help a friend out. See below PCN.
Aside the fact that they entered the YBJ only once the car in
front had cleared it and suddenly stopped, causing them to stop
in the box, I'm thinking of appealing based on the wording of
the PCN (having found out about this from researching on here)
One succesful appeal from 2 weeks ago, I believe represented by
[member=24]Hippocrates[/member], is case 2250426286.
Am I right in saying that this PCN contains the same
confusing/conflicting wording re. "date of notice" vs "date
served" and that this would be strong grounds for appeal?
(Considering Barnet will most likely reject and it will go to
tribunal)
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ksB7rLkx/IMG-20251120-WA0048-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/9kgDfxzN
#Post#: 100111--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 27, 2025, 1:03 pm
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The LLA & TfL Act 2003 is flawed and has stumped quite a few
councils because of this flaw. The Act allows 28 days from date
of notice to pay-up, or 28 days from date of service of notice,
to submit representations (appeal). So if you submit reps on Day
29 from date of notice, you are overdue paying, yet still in
time for submitting reps !! Stupid isn't it.
#Post#: 100129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: November 27, 2025, 3:28 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> The LLA & TfL Act 2003 is flawed and has stumped quite a few
councils because of this flaw. The Act allows 28 days from date
of notice to pay-up, or 28 days from date of service of notice,
to submit representations (appeal). So if you submit reps on Day
29 from date of notice, you are overdue paying, yet still in
time for submitting reps !! Stupid isn't it.
>
--- End Quote ---
So does that mean I have a compelling argument?
#Post#: 100148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 27, 2025, 5:22 pm
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--- Quote from: Londoner link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=8948.msg100111#msg100111
date=1764270231]
> The LLA & TfL Act 2003 is flawed and has stumped quite a few
councils because of this flaw. The Act allows 28 days from date
of notice to pay-up, or 28 days from date of service of notice,
to submit representations (appeal). So if you submit reps on Day
29 from date of notice, you are overdue paying, yet still in
time for submitting reps !! Stupid isn't it.
>
--- End Quote ---
So does that mean I have a compelling argument?
[/quote]
For your PCN, my view is no, you don't, as it all seems quite
clear to me, but the definite answer needs to come from
Hippocrates who specialises in PCN fatal errors. If he doesn't
post here soon, why not PM him.
#Post#: 100275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 29, 2025, 2:38 am
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Please post the wecode so we can look at the video, sometimes
there isn't a contravention
#Post#: 100277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 29, 2025, 3:03 am
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I think I managed to access it without the code a couple of days
ago (hope I'm remembering the right case!). I couldn't see
anything helpful in the video if so
#Post#: 100280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 29, 2025, 3:13 am
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The video needs to be posted here on the forum. Not everyone
will go looking for it OP,s need to take some responsibility
#Post#: 100305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 29, 2025, 5:51 am
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See my first link re the PCN issue in my profile.
#Post#: 100316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 29, 2025, 7:13 am
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Barnet have made it harder to save the cctv to your own
computer. I had to use an extension to my browser in order to
capture the video, you used to be able to right click and save,
not so easy nowadays. I used MPMux
Anyway, having watched the cctv
HTML https://youtu.be/ScaDtPb2QX8
I think the best argument is that the driver did not stop due to
stationary vehicles but just because he/she chose to (to light
his/her pipe, read the newspaper, consult a map, admire the view
or some other reason, one doesn't need to explain why) and
accordingly no contravention has occurred. There was room to
exit had the driver chosen to.
I would write one line in the representation 'The car did not
stop due to a stationary vehicle but at the free will of the
driver and accordingly no contravention can have occurred and
besides, there was room to exit the box.'
Given the changeover of contractor more challenges may be
allowed for the moment.
#Post#: 100322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet- 31j Entering & Stopping in YBJ When Prohibited.
PCN Wording Appeal?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 29, 2025, 8:18 am
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Depends whether the adjudicator has a tape measure! Sorry,
@mrmustard I disagree re the amount of room available.
The onscreen gap at the first time of stopping is ca. three
quarter of an inch. The car is far longer than that. Even at the
second stop there is not enough space. I agree that the third
time the car could have gone forward and just about cleared it.
What about the size of the box though? Too large?
I'll do a draft re the size of the YBJ, the de minimis incursion
therefore and the PCN.
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