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#Post#: 99384--------------------------------------------------
PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when prohibited
Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: Bella54
Date: November 23, 2025, 5:13 am
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Morning
HTML https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji112.png
Not sure if this area box Junction has a history as a cash cow
milking for Enfield and worth challenging? The box junction
Doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than to trap drivers in
it.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/yVBcSmM361h3XRfP9
I'll try to post the video up once I find a way to redact the
Reg numbers in it. Weather conditions were poor, dark and
rainy.
also not sure if the PCN wording is challengeable?
HTML https://ibb.co/1fFFPvTW
#Post#: 99385--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 23, 2025, 5:23 am
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Your car reg number is on view whenever it is on the public
highway, or even standing in your driveway, so it is pointless
trying to redact it. Main thing to always redact is name and
address. We need to see the video to assess whether an appeal
to London Tribunals is likely to succeed; the council will
reject whatever you submit as that is part of London councils
ruthless gaming of the system to get the money in.
#Post#: 99386--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: Bella54
Date: November 23, 2025, 6:16 am
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Thank you.
Video link now added.
HTML https://youtu.be/80fCeNzUtFM
#Post#: 99389--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 23, 2025, 7:30 am
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Video setting is private so we can't see it. Please update
setting on YouTube.
#Post#: 99390--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: Bella54
Date: November 23, 2025, 7:48 am
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Sorry, see if it works here
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/V2eAbz0
#Post#: 99396--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 23, 2025, 8:08 am
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Which is your car? The one that stops briefly before overtaking
down the left lane? Or the one in the right lane which exits
down the left lane at the end of the video?
#Post#: 99398--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: Bella54
Date: November 23, 2025, 8:12 am
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The one in the right lane, trying to move into the left before
the speed of the car in the left sped up and undertook.
#Post#: 99400--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 23, 2025, 8:15 am
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Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit later
There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline
after which the council may disregard your representations.
#Post#: 99402--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: Bella54
Date: November 23, 2025, 8:24 am
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--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit
later
>
> There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline
after which the council may disregard your representations.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you MrChips
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Not sure how visible this box Junction is these days, could go
back over to the area again if more photo's/videos will be
required for reps.
#Post#: 99478--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when
prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 24, 2025, 3:21 am
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So, the contravention is defined in the legislation as follows:
"Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow
criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in
Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a
vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to
stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary
vehicles."
From the video, it seems that you entered the box junction and
started to aim towards the vacant left hand lane but stopped
because you were (rightly) wary of the vehicle approaching from
behind you. Once the path was safe you moved into your intended
exit lane on the left.
You may therefore be able to construct an argument that your
stop was caused by moving vehicles (i.e. the one coming past you
on the left) and that but for this vehicle (which was not
stationary) you would not have stopped as you did.
It's not a guaranteed win as an adjudicator might argue you
should have waited before entering as it was clear you would
have to stop as you did not have the right of way.
There's also the PCN error I pointed out earlier. The London
Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 states:
"A penalty charge notice under this section must [my emphasis]—
(a)state—
(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be,
Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable
with respect to the vehicle;
(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the
period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the
amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified
proportion;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the
28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;
(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be
sent; and
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be
entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1
to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be
made."
So, it is mandatory for the PCN to state that you may be
entitled to make representations under the form specified in the
Act (set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1).
Specifically, this section states (amongst other things):
"The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations
which are received by them after the end of the period of 28
days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice
in question was served."
Your PCN quotes the deadline after which your representations
may be disregarded as "the period of 28 days beginning with the
date of the notice of this Penalty Charge Notice". This is
different to the date of service of the Penalty Charge Notice
which is assumed to be 2 business days after posting.
As it incorrectly states information which it must state in
order to comply with the Act, it could be argued to be invalid.
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