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#Post#: 9900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:15 am
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Whilst the moving traffic powers in the TMA 2004, have recently
been released, Sheffield have long had bus lane enforcement
powers under separate legislation. As far as I known these
rights are transferable when councils decide to use the TMA.
#Post#: 9901--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:16 am
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So long as the OP has nothing to lose that's their choice there
is a definition in the 2022 regs i think reg 11 of the general
regs which defines a bus lane as signed and marked using the 959
sign and broad white line but that relates to a parking PCN
affixed to the vehicle can't remember where the other definition
is and do not have time to look
#Post#: 9903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:26 am
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I am accused of being in a bus lane but none of the signage used
is in accordance with bus lane signing as determined by the
Department for Transport’s Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3. The
signage used is a variant of diagram 953 from Schedule 3 of the
TSRGD 2016. The TMA 2004 prescribes under Schedule 7 Part 4 that
contravening the sign to diagram 953 is a moving traffic
contravention and the applicable contravention description
according to Annex B to the statutory guidance issued by the
Secretary of State is code 33 - Using a route restricted to
certain vehicles.
The Council has committed a procedural impropriety in its
failure to issue a moving traffic PCN in accordance with the TMA
2004 Part 4 and with the statutory guidance which the council
must by law have regard to. As a consequence, the penalty charge
should be cancelled. If the Council disagrees, I expect the
council to layout “clear and full reasons for its decision” as
required by the statutory guidance.
I also cannot find any evidence online on the portal to show me
where the contravention happened as i am not from the area and
upon checking google maps i cannot see no bus gate sign on
arundel gate road.
So for these reasons i do not believe that the fine is payable
and i urge you to reconsider the PCN.
Thanks
Will this be okay?
As long as i pay £70 for both PCNs, i will not mind if they do
reject it as it was worth a go and i believe you should never
accept the PCNs as then you are admitting to the mistake but i
went through there unknowingly as they have only just recently
put the bus gate there even google maps has not been updated so
the maps will most likely still make you go through arudel gate
road.
Thanks
#Post#: 9905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:35 am
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The bus lane definition is unhelpful
--- Quote ---
> 6(1)A bus lane contravention is a contravention of any
provision of a traffic order relating to the use of an area of
road that is or forms part of a bus lane.
>
> (2)An area of road is or forms part of a bus lane if the order
provides that it may be used—
>
> (a)only by buses (or a particular description of bus), or
>
> (b)only by buses (or a particular description of bus) and some
other class or classes of vehicular traffic.
--- End Quote ---
but nonetheless a motorist needs be made aware of the presence
of a bus lane and this is done by placing bus lane signage in
accordance with the chapter 3 traffic signs manual. The
applicable section in the manual has the heading "Bus Lanes And
Gates". From this it can be inferred that a bus lane and a bus
gate are not the same thing. If they were, the simple heading
"Bus Lanes" would suffice. The fact that failing to comply with
a sign to diagram 953 is a moving traffic contravention under
the TMA 2004 creates a degree of ambiguity in respect of the
correct contravention.
#Post#: 9909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes definitely give it a go if the discount is re-offered if
rejected. I suggest also including this paragraph.
Furthermore, it has come to my attention that the enforcement of
the bus gate by CCTV only commenced this year and the statutory
guidance for local authorities outside London on civil
enforcement of bus lane and moving traffic contraventions
advises that a warning notice should be issued where a person
contravenes the restriction for the first time. This was my
first time and so only a warning notice should have been issued
in accordance with the statutory guidance.
#Post#: 9910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not completely unhelpful it defines an area of road but does not
refer to the whole road
OP this is an untested argument you must be aware that you could
lose and the full penalty would then be due if you want to take
the chance and go for it I will help
#Post#: 9911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 12, 2023, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Not completely unhelpful it defines an area of road but does
not refer to the whole road
>
> OP this is an untested argument you must be aware that you
could lose and the full penalty would then be due if you want to
take the chance and go for it I will help
>
--- End Quote ---
If you decide to fight use the draft posted by Phamtomcrusader
then come back when you get the notice of rejection then we will
see what we can come up with
#Post#: 9915--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 12, 2023, 8:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP...If you use my paragraphs I don't think you can include this
bit of yours
--- Quote ---
> and upon checking google maps i cannot see no bus gate sign on
arundel gate road.
--- End Quote ---
because my paragraphs challenge the signage but this sentence
basically says there is no signage.
#Post#: 9917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 12, 2023, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am accused of being in a bus lane but none of the signage used
is in accordance with bus lane signing as determined by the
Department for Transport’s Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3. The
signage used is a variant of diagram 953 from Schedule 3 of the
TSRGD 2016. The TMA 2004 prescribes under Schedule 7 Part 4 that
contravening the sign to diagram 953 is a moving traffic
contravention and the applicable contravention description
according to Annex B to the statutory guidance issued by the
Secretary of State is code 33 - Using a route restricted to
certain vehicles.
The Council has committed a procedural impropriety in its
failure to issue a moving traffic PCN in accordance with the TMA
2004 Part 4 and with the statutory guidance which the council
must by law have regard to. As a consequence, the penalty charge
should be cancelled. If the Council disagrees, I expect the
council to layout “clear and full reasons for its decision” as
required by the statutory guidance.
I also believe that the bus lane definition is unhelpful
because:
6(1)A bus lane contravention is a contravention of any provision
of a traffic order relating to the use of an area of road that
is or forms part of a bus lane.
(2)An area of road is or forms part of a bus lane if the order
provides that it may be used—
(a)only by buses (or a particular description of bus), or
(b)only by buses (or a particular description of bus) and some
other class or classes of vehicular traffic.
but nonetheless a motorist needs be made aware of the presence
of a bus lane and this is done by placing bus lane signage in
accordance with the chapter 3 traffic signs manual. The
applicable section in the manual has the heading "Bus Lanes And
Gates". From this it can be inferred that a bus lane and a bus
gate are not the same thing. If they were, the simple heading
"Bus Lanes" would suffice. The fact that failing to comply with
a sign to diagram 953 is a moving traffic contravention under
the TMA 2004 creates a degree of ambiguity in respect of the
correct contravention.
Furthermore, it has come to my attention that the enforcement of
the bus gate by CCTV only commenced this year and the statutory
guidance for local authorities outside London on civil
enforcement of bus lane and moving traffic contraventions
advises that a warning notice should be issued where a person
contravenes the restriction for the first time. This was my
first time and so only a warning notice should have been issued
in accordance with the statutory guidance.
Will this be okay?
#Post#: 9919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 12, 2023, 8:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Not completely unhelpful it defines an area of road but does
not refer to the whole road
>
> OP this is an untested argument you must be aware that you
could lose and the full penalty would then be due if you want to
take the chance and go for it I will help
>
--- End Quote ---
As seen in the screenshot below Sheffield council are a bit
lenient if i have made a appeal within the 21 days
[attachment deleted by admin]
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