DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 9839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 11, 2023, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Baxtinho link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3465438,-2.9735898,3a,75y,294.9h,78.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWtPFspuniyuPsOdWvK8U0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
>
> This is one by me. Loads and loads got fined because their
defence was basically "I've always gone that way", which I've
zero sympathy for as that's not an excuse for disregarding road
signs.
>
> Argue it, as insufficient signs is a good one for getting them
overturned, but I think you're dead to rights, sadly.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am just trying to say i been that way in the past and i had no
problems but as they put the bus gate recently and i am not from
the area how am i suppose to know as even kn google maps i
cannot see the bus gate written on the road anywhere.
The bus gate has only recently been put there
HTML https://www.thestar.co.uk/business/call-to-refund-39000-sheffield-arundel-gate-bus-gate-penalties-4391806
#Post#: 9841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 11, 2023, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I do not know if this will make a difference or not but my
vehicle is ulez compliant and my tax is disabled class.
#Post#: 9843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Baxtinho
Date: November 11, 2023, 7:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Abz2k23 link ---
>
> Here is the close up of the bus gate picture on the pcn letter
i cannot see no other picture or videos online, on google maps
there is no bus gate written on that road anywhere.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hard to tell because of the fold in the paper, but if that's a
picture of your car driving past the words BUS GATE and the big
yellow and blue sign on the left, I don't think you have a leg
to stand on.
#Post#: 9846--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 11, 2023, 8:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As far as I understand it you are accused of being in a bus lane
and yet the signage conveys a route restricted to cycles buses
and taxis. Failing to comply with the sign is a moving traffic
PCN. See Part 4 here
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/7
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/7
33 (je) Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (buses,
cycles and taxis only)
An example of a code 33 PCN being applicable to bus gates is
here
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=148676
I'd argue that none of the signage used conveyed a bus lane. The
signage used is a permitted variant of diagram 953
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/images/uksi_20160362_en_115<br
/>and therefore the council wrongly issued a bus lane PCN when
it
should have been a contravention code 33 moving traffic PCN. The
ground to challenge under is procedural impropriety.
#Post#: 9872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 11, 2023, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but need all the help i can get, so i can use post 9 from
bubucar from pepipoo?
So all of what i screenshoted below?
I think tommorow will be the last day to appeal as the date
posted was 23rd october.
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 9873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Abz2k23
Date: November 11, 2023, 4:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think tommorow will be the last day to appeal if they have
sent the notice on 23rd October or do i still have some time.
Thanks
#Post#: 9877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 11, 2023, 7:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If you submit reps beyond the 21 days of the discount period,
they may not re-offer the discount. You have 28 days from
service of the PCNs to submit reps, (or pay-up, of course !). We
don't know if Sheffield play hard ball or not but many councils
re-offer the discount when rejecting reps to encourage payment
and avoid them having to prepare evidence packs for an
adjudication. Why ? Because if the discount isn't re-offered, it
is a no-brainer for the PCN recipient to appeal to the
adjudicators as the penalty remains the same and there are no
additional costs.
#Post#: 9880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 12, 2023, 3:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unless you have something more solid I suggest sending this.
I am accused of being in a bus lane but none of the signage used
is in accordance with bus lane signing as determined by the
Department for Transport’s Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3. The
signage used is a variant of diagram 953 from Schedule 3 of the
TSRGD 2016. The TMA 2004 prescribes under Schedule 7 Part 4 that
contravening the sign to diagram 953 is a moving traffic
contravention and the applicable contravention description
according to Annex B to the statutory guidance issued by the
Secretary of State is code 33 - Using a route restricted to
certain vehicles.
The Council has committed a procedural impropriety in its
failure to issue a moving traffic PCN in accordance with the TMA
2004 Part 4 and with the statutory guidance which the council
must by law have regard to. As a consequence, the penalty charge
should be cancelled. If the Council disagrees, I expect the
council to layout “clear and full reasons for its decision” as
required by the statutory guidance.
#Post#: 9884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 12, 2023, 4:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Problem with that is that the council need to seek authorisation
to serve moving traffic PCN's even though they now can if that
permission is sought. The definition of a bus lane is any road
or part of a road set aside for specific types of vehicles ( I
am paraphrasing here as not gone back to check) I had considered
that argument but dismissed it as one to make only when there is
nothing to lose or the OP is aware that it is not a high chance
of success argument
#Post#: 9897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheffield bus gate
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: November 12, 2023, 7:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The bus lane definition should not negate the need to sign it as
a bus lane in accordance with the traffic manual. According to
the guidance the location is signed as a bus gate and the TMA
2004 specifically designates the sign as a sign to be enforced
as a moving traffic contravention. If it can be enforced as a
bus lane contravention it seems superfluous to designate it as a
sign to be enforced as a moving traffic contravention. If the
council has not yet obtained moving traffic enforcement powers
it may be ultra vires to enforce the sign. It's a gamble but
they may mess up their response. So long as the OP has nothing
to lose it's worth trying.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 4
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page