DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 9618--------------------------------------------------
Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with prohibition
on type of vehicle
DIR By: lichens.first
Date: November 8, 2023, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, Hoping to get some advice on how to handle this please.
On 18/6 it seems I had a Penalty Charge Notice for a traffic
contravention. I never received any letter about it so of course
didn’t pay it.
I only received a Charge Certificate that I was late ,
requesting the full amount ( so I lost the chance to pay only
half) plus another 50%.
I decided to let this go to court as I was planning to respond
to the court letter that I had never received the original PCN.
But now the court didn’t contact me at all and immediately
issued a warrant. I received a Notice of Enforcement now from a
recovery agency for a much larger amount.
Is there anything I can do to appeal this ruling or is my only
option to pay?
I don't dispute the actual offence, but I don't see why I should
pay the inflated amount when I never got the chance to pay the
discounted penalty.
The Charge Certificate is dated 14/08. I was out of the country
from 10/8 till 27/8 and can prove that. That also contributed
to the mess.
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 9626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: jojo1868
Date: November 8, 2023, 3:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From my understanding that doesn't proof they have warrant, it
only shows things has transfered to private enforcement agent.
Have you ever receive a claim form from CNBC?
#Post#: 9634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 8, 2023, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear, you do seem to be in a right mess ! It is OK to ignore
a Charge Certificate if you are au fait with the enforcement
process, but it's clear you weren't. What a pity you didn't come
on here earlier !
In the statutory enforcement process, after sending out the CC,
and getting no response to it, (payment), the council can then
register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of
county court, but which covers the whole of England and Wales).
Once registered, the council must send you an Order for
Recovery. This again invites payment, but the TEC registration
fee of £9 is added to the CC amount. At this point, you can
either pay up or submit a Witness Statement, or a Statutory
Declaration, which one depends on what the PCN was issued for.
Time is again allowed for payment or for submission of a
declaration. If there is no response to the OfR, the council
instruct bailiffs to collect the debt and they then add on their
own statutory fees.
So the key question to you is - did you receive the Order for
Recovery ? You haven't mention it at all, yet you did get the
Charge Certificate. Is the name and address on the CC correct ?
FYI, the only avenue open to you now, is to submit an
Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the
PCN. You would need to state a reason for non-receipt and it
seems that you cannot explain this because your V5 for the
vehicle has the correct name and address on it. (is this true ?
if it isn't you need to tell us a whole lot more)
You can download the relevant forms here: -
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
#Post#: 9635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 8, 2023, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No it is in a bailiffs hands then all you can do is file an
application to file a SD out of time and a SD if this is
accepted then the bailiffs will be called off, in any event they
will be paused until it is decided.
The council can object to the out of time in which case it is
usually rejected so we need to understand why you received a CC
but no prior notice
#Post#: 9687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: lichens.first
Date: November 9, 2023, 12:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> So the key question to you is - did you receive the Order for
Recovery ? You haven't mention it at all, yet you did get the
Charge Certificate. Is the name and address on the CC correct ?
--- End Quote ---
Yes, the name and address are correct on the Charge Certificate,
and haven't changed in years. I do live in large apartment
building though, and it has happened that we've received other
people's mail occassionally and vice versa.
--- Quote ---
> So the key question to you is - did you receive the Order for
Recovery ? You haven't mention it at all, yet you did get the
Charge Certificate. Is the name and address on the CC correct ?
--- End Quote ---
No, I didn't. I only received the two letters attached.
Any advice on what to write on the Out-Of-Time declaration? Is
it worth doing, or do you think I have no chance?
Thanks for the help!
#Post#: 9715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 9, 2023, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Any advice on what to write on the Out-Of-Time declaration?
Is it worth doing, or do you think I have no chance?
--- End Quote ---
I think in your case, submitting an out-of-time Statutory
Declaration could well succeed. Most cases we see where
documents have gone astray is because the owner of the vehicle
had moved address and not updated his V5, nor arranged mail
redirection. However, you say you've been at your address for
years, with a correct V5 address, the receipt of the Charge
Certificate proves this.
So you should submit your OOT SD. YOu can download the forms
from TEC
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
You need PE2 and PE3
When filling in the form, remember that the "applicant" is the
council, you are the "respondent".
#Post#: 9926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: lichens.first
Date: November 12, 2023, 10:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you all so much for the advice. I've filed both forms
now.
The email autoreply says out of time applications can take 8-10
weeks to be resolved. How do I handle the enforcement agent in
the meantime? On the back of the Enforcement Notice, it
mentions large fees if the Enforcement agent ends up visiting
me... Don't want to be stuck with that as well. Is there a way
to get them off my back till the application is looked into?
Thanks again
#Post#: 9934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: November 12, 2023, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please confirm that you had the Out of Time application and the
Statutory Declaration witnessed?
Did you email them to the TEC? When?
The TEC should inform the Council of your application the same
day if your forms were received before 4pm on a working day.
Otherwise the next working day.
The Council has to immediately cease any enforcement action,
that means call off the bailiffs until the TEC process your
application.
#Post#: 9941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Baliff- Failing to comply with
prohibition on type of vehicle
DIR By: lichens.first
Date: November 12, 2023, 11:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Please confirm that you had the Out of Time application and
the Statutory Declaration witnessed?
> Did you email them to the TEC? When?
>
> The TEC should inform the Council of your application the same
day if your forms were received before 4pm on a working day.
Otherwise the next working day.
> The Council has to immediately cease any enforcement action,
that means call off the bailiffs until the TEC process your
application.
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s great news, thanks. Yes I submitted them both by email
today. Had them witnessed by a neighbour who’s a solicitor. So
I guess they’ll inform the council tomorrow
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1