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#Post#: 99258--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: b789 Date: November 22, 2025, 1:42 am
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If the OP is not the RK, but wants to assist the RK, a family
member, then the OP can just do everything in the RKs name. This
is not some clandestine operation to deceive anyone.
No initial appeal is going to be successful, no matter how
prosaic the appeal. There is no money in it for these scammers.
You are not dealing with some corporate organisation with a
dedicated customer service ethos. This firm is a bunch of ex
clamper thugs who are members of the BPA cartel. They want your
money and will pursue the RK all the way to a county court
claim.
You may also want to think that POPLA is some kind of
independent organisation. They aren’t. They are a private
business, funded by he very same firms they are supposedly
adjudicating. POPLA assessors are, in general, just ordinary
people who have received some minimal training. They aren’t not
legally qualified in any way. Some of them are utter morons with
very little ability to understand contract law. POPLA are
answerable to no one. There is no overreaching organisation or
ombudsman that they must answer to.
If POPLA accept the appeal, then good. However, if they don’t,
their decision is not binding on the appellant. They can be
safely ignored. It is the next step of the process where most of
the low-hanging fruit are picked off.
The debt recovery stage is designed to intimidate the gullible
into paying up because the majority are ignorant of their rights
and how this process works. Suddenly they start receiving
letters from debt collectors which threaten all sorts of
nastiness and throw in scary words like “CCJ” and Bailiff” etc.
suddenly, a fake £70 has been added and the recipient goes into
“poop their pants” mode and many just pay up because of their
ignorance of how the debt recovery system works,
Suffice it to say, debt collectors are not a party to any
contract allegedly breached by the driver. They are powerless
except to be able to prey on the majority of victims ignorance
of the civil justice system. It doesn’t help that most people
will have no idea about the difference between the civil and
criminal justice system.
The number of motorists we deal with here, think that “court” is
the equivalent of a wigged judge, robes, barristers and so on.
Their ignorance of the system extends to nightmares that one a
claim is issued, they have a CCJ and their credit record is
trashed. Again, the majority, who have not been educated by us,
capitulate and pay up, as I say, out of ignorance and fear.
However, nothing could be further from the truth and these
scamming firms know it but hate us for making a tiny pinprick in
their armour and profits. In the vast majority of cases, these
vexatious firms of scamming ex-clampers never follow through all
the way to a hearing.
In most cases, the claim will either be struck out or
discontinued. They don’t want a spanking in court. They know
their witness statements are mendacious. Their adherence to the
law is tenuous, at best. Most defendants are unsure of their
rights and consumer law. Most have no idea how contract law
works in these cases.
In the very few that ever get as far as a hearing, the majority
are won. The very few that are not successful end up paying less
than the original claim amount because most judges are aware of
the fake add on £70 fees which are an attempt at “double
recovery” and opens the claimant up to costs orders for
unreasonable behaviour.
I can say with greater than 99.9% confidence, that in this case,
a UKPC claimant will be represented by DCB Legal for the claim.
As long as the claim is defended, and we provide the template
for the defence, the claim will either be struck out of
discontinued just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee.
The process takes approximately 9-12+ months from receipt of the
PCN to successful conclusion. There is a bit of time involved in
the appeal process and the defence and Directions Questionnaire
submission but apart from that, you are hand held all the way
through the process.
So, the advice, should you care to take it, is to make as little
effort as necessary on the initial appeal, put some minimal
effort in the POPLA appeal and, if unsuccessful, ignore the
useless debt recovery stage and come back when a Letter of Claim
(LoC) is received and defend and win with a greater than 99.9%
chance of success.
#Post#: 99259--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: b789 Date: November 22, 2025, 1:51 am
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This is the advice I give for the initial appeal: There is no
legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the
Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown
driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which
means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot
transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the
known keeper.
Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove
anything from it:
[quote]I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your
'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement
and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to
your client landowner.
As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. UKPC has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
UKPC have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.[/quote]
#Post#: 99691--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: Plywood-Enthusiast Date: November 25, 2025, 5:03 am
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Thanks b789
I will copy paste that into the informal appeal on behalf of the
keeper.
I do not want to put that on the keeper and stress them out with
fake baliff letters sent in their name. I really want this
quashed at POPLA and do all angles, including the fact that
driver was there legitimately doing deliveries, lack of signage
of parking rules etc.
Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of
sending the letter out?
My plan of action.
informal appeal based on ^ on day 28 of notice.
expect a rejecton at informal appeal
file popla appeal on 28 days of rejection.
Hopefully the elongation of time of at least 56 days at least
means UKPC are too late to send anything to driver after driver
is identified for POPLA appeal.
Does that make sense?
#Post#: 99692--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: DWMB2 Date: November 25, 2025, 5:08 am
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[quote author=Plywood-Enthusiast
link=topic=8849.msg99691#msg99691 date=1764068580]
Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of
sending the letter out?
[/quote]
The keeper can name the driver at any point before the
commencement of proceedings.
However, the driver would not have the benefit of any of the
defences offered by UKPC's lack of PoFA compliance.
Letters from debt collectors need not be a source of stress -
despite their shrill protestations they are ultimately powerless
to do anything other than issue letters.
#Post#: 99694--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: Plywood-Enthusiast Date: November 25, 2025, 5:12 am
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[quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=8849.msg99692#msg99692
date=1764068896]
[quote author=Plywood-Enthusiast
link=topic=8849.msg99691#msg99691 date=1764068580]
Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of
sending the letter out?
[/quote]
The keeper can name the driver at any point before the
commencement of proceedings.
However, the driver would not have the benefit of any of the
defences offered by UKPC's lack of PoFA compliance.
Letters from debt collectors need not be a source of stress -
despite their shrill protestations they are ultimately powerless
to do anything other than issue letters.
[/quote]
I understand, the last time I did this I recall being told after
a number of days the identification of driver is useless to them
because UKPC have a deadline to issue notice to driver from
infraction. After a certain time they cannot do this. This was
from the old pepipoo forum advice.
If that is no longer a case, then can I do a POPLA appeal with
delivery proofs by redacting the driver name? That would involve
using the delivery invoice with blacked out driver names.
#Post#: 99698--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: DWMB2 Date: November 25, 2025, 5:21 am
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I think you may be misremembering the old advice you read on
PePiPoo, the legal situation as regards keeper liability has not
changed.
A breach of contract can be pursued for up to 6 years - by
default the parties to any such contract are the driver and the
operator. If an operator wants to recover charges from the
registered keeper rather than the driver, they must meet the
requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012. This sets deadlines for the issuance of various notices.
These deadlines are irrelevant if the operator knows the
identity of the driver and can take action against them
directly.
#Post#: 99700--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: b789 Date: November 25, 2025, 5:31 am
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Please spare me the whinge about only taking this as far as
POPLA!!!! I can guarantee with greater than 99.9% certainty that
if POPLA is unsuccessful, this would NEVER reach a hearing and
the claim would eventually be discontinued.
Nothing pisses me off more than people who simply fund these
scammers and therefore become part of the problem rather than
the solution.
If you want the easy, very little effort solution to this, then
do nothing. NO appeal. No POPLA. Ignore the useless debt
recovery letters. Ignore the Letter before Claim (LoC) and
simply defend the claim when it arrives. You are guided through
the very simple process of acknowledging service and we provide
the defence which you simply copy and paste.
The rest of the process involves one more emailed form (N180 DQ)
to send and a less than 5 minute phone call with a mediator
where all you do is say "I offer £0" and that is the extent of
any work you must do. The claim will eventually be discontinued
just before the claimant has to pay the £27 trial fee.
But hey, it's your money and if you want to throw the driver
under the bus and waste good money, who am I to argue?
I don't know why I bother sometimes!
#Post#: 99711--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: DWMB2 Date: November 25, 2025, 6:08 am
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Play nicely kids.
The OP is talking about the keeper (someone else), throwing him
under the bus, not t'other way round.
Ideally the keeper will deal with it until conclusion but if
they're just going to pay and you're more up for a fight they
could name you.
#Post#: 100483--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: Plywood-Enthusiast Date: December 1, 2025, 5:36 am
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[quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=8849.msg99711#msg99711
date=1764072535]
Play nicely kids.
The OP is talking about the keeper (someone else), throwing him
under the bus, not t'other way round.
Ideally the keeper will deal with it until conclusion but if
they're just going to pay and you're more up for a fight they
could name you.
[/quote]
The RK is someone else, its a big ask for them to receive
letters in their name for the next 6 years with supposedly legal
letters for a parking charge they have not incurred themselves.
They are of a nervous disposition and will not accept the
letters are fake and can be ignored.
I(the driver) will be drafting the appeal. submitted as them,
with their permission of course. I would rather get this dealt
at POPLA stage and provide full delivery to POPLA and throw a
big bank of evidence their way to get the charge cancelled.
evidence including drivers name (my name) in the unredacted
documents.
If you think even POPLA is going to be 50:50 and I'm relying on
it never going to county court. I might as well have the letters
come in my name and have a strong defence for court if they wish
to take it there.
I'd rather go to court as the driver and defend myself, than
have the RK to receive 3-4 letters a year and possibly go to
court.
#Post#: 100527--------------------------------------------------
Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
By: b789 Date: December 1, 2025, 9:08 am
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The ONLY lawful way to transfer liability for the charge if for
the Keeper to provide the drivers details to the creditor and
pass the NtK to the driver. PoFA 9(2)(e)(ii) applies.
[quote]The Notice MUST state that the creditor does not know
both the name of the driver and a current address for service
for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking
charges; or if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to
notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current
address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to
the driver.[/quote]
So, unless the Keeper does the above, even if you try to
intervene and admit to being the driver, there is nothing to
stop them going back to the Keeper and pestering them in future.
If they do what PoFA says they must do in order to transfer
liability away from themselves as Keeper, then all they have to
do is as stated. After that, there is NO legal recourse for them
to even contact the Keeper about this ever again.
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