URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 98833--------------------------------------------------
       Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: Feline007
       Date: November 19, 2025, 10:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I received 2 private parking charges for parking in my own bay
       at the development I was living in with my boyfriend at that
       time from Parking Control Management.  As part of his lease he
       was alloted one numbered parking space, and the parking space is
       mentioned in his deeds as him being the owner.  He allowed me to
       use the parking space as I was living with him, and we shared
       the space, although only parked one car at a time.  He was given
       a pass to display and mostly we displayed it but sometimes he
       had the pass in his car and was elsewhere sdo I had to park with
       no pass displayed.  This happened twice in December of 2024 and
       I was sent a PPN for both occasions.
       I appealed the ticket and explained that the lease stated that
       one vehicle could be parked in space 456 and that it formed part
       of the leaseholders property and was marked on the deeds.  The
       lease mentioned no necessity of displaying a parking permit.
       The signage and permits were issued after purchasing the
       property. I argued that the leaseholder has primary of contract
       for the parking space and had not entered into any contract with
       Parking Control Management.
       Both appeals were turned down.  I then received letters from
       Trace Debt Recovery, which I ignored, and I have now recieved 2
       'Letter Before Claim' from Moorside Legal, which simply state
       that I owe £170 for an unpaid invoice.  It does not state any
       other details and I assume each one is for the 2 charges hence
       £170 x 2.
       I have not answered this yet but I am now buying a house and it
       has worried me that they may issue a CCJ which could hinder my
       mortgage application.  What should I do please?
       #Post#: 98853--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: November 19, 2025, 11:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They can’t “issue a CCJ”, please get that out of your head.
       The only way you can get a recorded County Court Judgement which
       affects credit and so on is if you go to court, lose, and do not
       pay within 30 days.
       No advice you get here will put you in that position.
       PCM are using your ignorance and fear to frighten you into
       paying them.
       You are correct in your stance, if your boyfriend’s lease does
       not require a pass to be displayed, then it doesn’t.
       You will get advice here for a response to Moorside Legal, they
       are pretty incompetent and well-known.
       #Post#: 98871--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: b789
       Date: November 19, 2025, 12:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Are there two separate LoCs, one for each PCN which are for the
       identical reason for the same vehicle? Hilariously incompetent
       but not surprising from the bottom-dwelling morons at Moorside.
       Stop worrying about this.
       You are correct about the primacy of the lease. However that
       will not deter the feckwits at Moorside from issuing the claim.
       Receiving a claim will NOT affect your debit rating or any
       mortgager application.
       You should respond to each LoC separately with the following to
       help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and CC yourself:
       --- Quote ---
       > Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim Ref: [reference
       number]
       >
       > Dear Sirs,
       >
       > Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the
       claim and fails to provide copies of the evidence your client
       places reliance upon, putting it in clear breach of the
       Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.
       >
       > As a supposed firm of solicitors, one would expect you to
       comply with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol,
       and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These
       provisions exist to facilitate informed discussion and
       proportionate resolution. You may wish to reacquaint yourselves
       with them.
       >
       > The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and
       Protocols (Part 3), require the exchange of sufficient
       information to understand each other’s position. Part 6
       clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents
       relevant to the issues in dispute.
       >
       > Your template letter refers to a “contract” yet encloses none.
       That omission undermines the only foundation upon which your
       client’s claim allegedly rests. It is not possible to engage in
       meaningful pre-litigation dialogue while you decline to furnish
       the very document you purport to enforce.
       >
       > I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim
       that complies with para 3.1(a), I shall seek advice and submit a
       formal response within 30 days, as required. Accordingly, please
       provide:
       >
       > [indent]1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) and
       any notice chain relied upon to assert PoFA 2012
       liability.

       > 2. A copy of the contract you allege exists between your
       client and the driver, being an actual photograph of the sign(s)
       in place on the material date (not a stock image), together with
       a site plan showing the sign locations.

       > 3. The precise wording of the clause(s) allegedly breached.
       > 
4. The written agreement between your client and the
       landowner evidencing standing/authority to enforce and to
       litigate.

       > 5. A breakdown of the sums claimed, identifying whether the
       principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and
       whether the £70 “debt recovery” add-on includes
       VAT.
[/indent]
       >
       > I am entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and
       6(c) of the Practice Direction, and I require it to meet my own
       obligation under paragraph 6(b).
       >
       > If you fail to provide the above, I will treat that as
       non-compliance with the PAPDC and Pre-Action Conduct and will
       raise a formal complaint to the SRA regarding your conduct. I
       reserve the right to place this correspondence before the Court
       and to seek appropriate sanctions and costs (including, where
       appropriate, a stay and/or other case management orders).
       >
       > Until your client complies and provides the requested
       material, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim
       or to consider my position. It would be premature and a waste of
       costs and court time to issue proceedings. Should you do so, I
       will seek immediate case management relief pursuant to paragraph
       15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order compelling
       provision of the above.
       >
       > Please note, I will not engage with any web portal; I will
       only respond by email or post.
       >
       > Yours faithfully,
       >
       > [Your name]
       --- End Quote ---
       Please tell us exactly what the lease says about parking. Of
       course, as you already know, what it doesn't day about parking
       is equally important.
       TO quell your unsubstantiated fear about CCJs, please read the
       following:
       --- Quote ---
       > These unregulated private parking firms and their pet debt
       collectors thrive on one thing: the public’s ignorance of how
       County Court claims and CCJs actually work. They know that if
       they can make you believe that “a claim” or a “debt recovery”
       letter somehow wrecks your credit rating, you will panic and pay
       them. The gullible tree is full of low-hanging fruit, and they
       make a very good living shaking it.
       >
       > Here is the reality, which you should read and take a “life
       lesson” from...
       >
       > A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private firm is not a
       fine. It is just a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of
       contract by the driver. At that stage, nothing touches your
       credit file.
       >
       > If you are not successful in appealing the PCN – and appeals
       are almost never successful at the initial stage and rarely at
       the secondary, supposedly “independent” (but not) appeal – most
       low-hanging fruit do not understand that those decisions are not
       binding on them and they should never just pay. Many do,
       however, because they are ignorant of the process and fearful of
       imaginary consequences.
       >
       > If you then get “debt recovery” letters from so-called debt
       collectors, those are just more speculative invoices dressed up
       in scary language designed to prey on your ignorance and fear.
       Debt collectors have no legal powers whatsoever to come to your
       door, take goods, or report anything to credit reference
       agencies. You could receive fifty of those letters and your
       credit rating would be unchanged.
       >
       > As part of the modus operandi of these unregulated firms, the
       next formal step is usually a Letter of Claim (LoC). That is
       just a threat that they may start a County Court claim. Even
       then, your credit record is still untouched. It is simply a
       threat of legal action, not the result of it. Just more attempts
       to intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into
       paying out of ignorance and fear.
       >
       > Only if they go ahead and issue a County Court claim do you
       enter the court (judicial) process. A Claim Form comes from the
       court, not from a useless and powerless debt collector. Getting
       a claim issued against you does not, by itself, affect your
       credit rating. A claim is simply an allegation that you owe
       money. You have the right to defend it. As long as you read your
       post, acknowledge the claim in time, and either defend it or
       settle it, your credit file remains untouched.
       >
       > A County Court Judgment (CCJ) only arises if the court
       actually makes a judgment against you. That happens either
       because you defended and were unsuccessful at a hearing, or
       because you ignored the claim and the parking firm got judgment
       in default. Even then, you still have a crucial safety net that
       the low-hanging fruit do not realise exists. If you pay the full
       judgment sum within 30 days of the date of judgment, the CCJ is
       not registered on your credit file. It is expunged completely
       from the record. It is as if it never happened as far as lenders
       are concerned.
       >
       > A CCJ only appears on your credit record if you fail to pay
       within that 30-day window. That is the point at which it gets
       recorded and can affect your ability to obtain credit. Up to
       that point, no amount of tickets, no stack of debt recovery
       letters, no Letter of/Before Claim, and not even the issuing of
       a County Court claim has any impact on your credit history.
       >
       > Bailiffs are a separate step again. They cannot simply be sent
       because you have ignored an unregulated private parking invoice
       or a useless debt recovery letter. Bailiffs (enforcement agents)
       only become relevant after there is a CCJ and it has not been
       paid.
       >
       > For most smaller PCN CCJs, it is not even worth the creditor’s
       time and cost to instruct bailiffs, especially when the amount
       is under £600 and stuck in the slower County Court enforcement
       system. But the key point is this: no unpaid CCJ, no lawful
       bailiff.
       >
       > So when people say things like “I had a debt recovery letter
       so I might not get a mortgage now” or “if I defend, I will get a
       CCJ,” they are simply wrong. It is precisely that ignorance and
       fear that these firms trade on. They rely on ordinary motorists
       incorrectly assuming that a red-letter demand automatically
       means ruined credit and bailiffs at the door.
       >
       > There is nothing in the advice given here that will affect
       your credit record. On the contrary, proper advice is what keeps
       you away from CCJs. If you engage with the process, defend where
       appropriate, and, in the extremely rare instance where you are
       unsuccessful defending a claim, pay any judgment within 30 days,
       your credit file will remain completely unaffected and no
       bailiff will lawfully darken your doorstep over a private
       parking charge.
       >
       > These companies rely on being able to intimidate the
       low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of
       ignorance and fear.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 99025--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: Feline007
       Date: November 20, 2025, 9:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you so much for this advice!  I was so worried, but you
       have totally reassured me.  I will copy and paste your excellent
       reply and sent it to Moorside.  The lease mentions nothing
       whatsoever about a permit but when my boyfriend moved in he got
       one through the post.  No actual mention of this on the lease
       however.  The parking attendant used to turn up at 4am just to
       put tickets on the residents who live there and own the spaces.
       I had no idea about the whys and wherefores of CCJs but am a lot
       better educated 'low hanging fruit' now.  I shall post again if
       there is any further actions taken.  So glad I found this forum.
       #Post#: 99026--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: November 20, 2025, 9:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Feline007 link ---
       >
       > The lease mentions nothing whatsoever about a permit
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       At risk of sounding pedantic, that wasn't quite the question.
       Does it say anything about parking more generally - i.e. does it
       specify that parking forms part of the lease, and/or that a
       specific bay(s) is allocated, for example?
       #Post#: 99028--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: Feline007
       Date: November 20, 2025, 9:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The lease mentioned a specific bay and said it was for one
       vehicle.  It did not specify any particular car, just one
       vehicle, and the only stuipulation was not a commercial vehicle,
       and you couldn't do repairs in the bay.  I will have to dig out
       the lease to read it again but I searched the entire document
       before and there was no mention whatsoever that a permit was to
       be displayed.  Furthermore, the parking bay was marked on the
       blueprint as being owned, along with the flat.
       #Post#: 99029--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: November 20, 2025, 10:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Feline007 link ---
       >
       > The lease mentioned a specific bay and said it was for one
       vehicle.  It did not specify any particular car, just one
       vehicle, and the only stuipulation was not a commercial vehicle,
       and you couldn't do repairs in the bay.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       This wording is explicitly in your favour so well worth digging
       out.
       #Post#: 99031--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: Feline007
       Date: November 20, 2025, 10:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I just got the lease out.  I searched the entire very long
       document and there is no mention of displaying anything.  These
       are the relevant paragraphs:
       “Allocated Parking Space” means the parking space numbered 32
       and edged
       green on the Plan and being one of the Car Parking Spaces
       Subject to the Tenant paying the Part C Proportion of the
       Transferee’s Proportion the
       right to park a single private motor vehicle on the Allocated
       Parking Space or such
       other space as may be allocated in place thereof by the Landlord
       for the parking of a
       private motor vehicle or motor cycle which complies with the
       restrictions set out in
       paragraphs 17 and 18 of Schedule Four subject to any easement or
       rights granted or
       to be granted over or under the same to any
       Authority


       Schedule 4
       17. Not to use the Allocated Parking Space otherwise than for
       the parking of a single
       private motor vehicle or motor cycle which does not exceed 35
       cwt. gross laden weight and which shall be in a road worthy
       condition, taxed and insured
       18. Not to park on the Allocated Parking Space or on any part of
       the Estate any commercial vehicle other than a light delivery
       van at reasonable times of the day for so long as may be
       reasonably necessary for the purpose of delivering goods to and
       collecting goods from the Property or carrying our repairs
       maintenance decoration or small building works to the Property
       such vehicle to be parked on the Allocated Parking Space
       #Post#: 99095--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: b789
       Date: November 20, 2025, 11:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What you’ve just posted from the lease is exactly what we needed
       – and it is very strongly in your favour.
       You have “the right to park a single private motor vehicle on
       the Allocated Parking Space…” with only very limited
       restrictions (must be a private, roadworthy, taxed and insured
       vehicle, not a commercial vehicle, no repairs etc.). There is:
       [indent]– no requirement to display anything
       – no mention of permits
       – no mention of “management rules” about parking
       – and the bay itself is demised/edged on the plan as part of the
       property[/indent]
       That means the leaseholder (your boyfriend) already has an
       express contractual right to park a private vehicle in that
       specific space. A third-party parking company later parachuted
       in by a managing agent cannot unilaterally invent extra
       conditions (such as “display a permit or pay £100”) which cut
       across that granted right. The lease has primacy; PCM are
       strangers to it.
       You can still use the Letter of Claim response I drafted above
       to Moorside, but I would now add a short extra paragraph about
       the lease, so that both they and their client are on notice that
       there is no cause of action. For example, immediately before the
       final “Until your client complies…” paragraph, insert something
       along the following lines:
       --- Quote ---
       > For the avoidance of doubt, any vehicle I parked in bay
       [number] was parked under an express right granted by the long
       lease of the flat held by [boyfriend’s name]. That lease grants
       the right to park “a single private motor vehicle” on the
       Allocated Parking Space, which forms part of the demised
       premises and is shown edged on the lease plan. The lease
       contains no requirement to display a permit, nor any obligation
       to contract with your client or comply with its signage.
       >
       > The lease has primacy of contract. Your client is a stranger
       to that lease and cannot, by putting up signs years later,
       derogate from grant or interfere with the leaseholder’s right of
       quiet enjoyment of their own parking bay. Any attempt to levy
       charges for parking in that demised bay, or to pursue court
       proceedings for doing so, will be defended as a clear abuse and
       a tortious interference with the leaseholder’s rights.
       --- End Quote ---
       Send that (with the rest of the Letter of Claim response) to
       Moorside for each Letter of Claim, as already suggested, by
       email and copy yourself in.
       Practical points for you now:
       [indent]• Keep a good scan of the full lease and plan safely
       stored.
       • Make sure your boyfriend is willing to provide a short witness
       statement later if a claim is issued, confirming he is the
       leaseholder, that bay [number] is demised to him, and that you
       were permitted to use it.
       • Do not pay anything, do not ring them, and ignore TRACE
       completely. Everything goes in writing to Moorside
       only.[/indent]
       Everything I mentioned earlier about CCJs still stands. You do
       not get a wrecked credit record just because Moorside send
       threats, or even if PCM are stupid enough to issue one (or two!)
       County Court claims. As long as you:
       [indent]– do not ignore any actual Claim Form from the court,
       and
       – either win, or in the very unlikely event you ever lost, paid
       in full within 30 days,[/indent]
       then no CCJ would appear on your credit file and your mortgage
       application would be unaffected.
       So: send the beefed-up Letter of Claim responses, keep the lease
       safe, and stop worrying. If they are daft enough to sue over a
       demised bay with wording like that in the lease, you will be in
       a very strong position to defend it and even claim costs for
       their unreasonable behaviour.
       #Post#: 99182--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Moorside Legal - Private Parking Charge
   DIR By: Feline007
       Date: November 21, 2025, 9:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you so much b789!  I had already sent the initial email,
       but I will send it again with that paragraph added.  Fingers
       crossed nothing else happens.
       I have just opened the post to ANOTHER PCN!  It is regarding
       another one that I appealed, then ignored, and I now have their
       follow up.  Countrywide parking.  It sounds like I'm a serial
       parking bandit but it is not the case.  In simple terms, I
       parked in an empty car park belonging to a doctors surgery.  Saw
       the signs about registering - went straight to the desk (empty
       surgery) and asked the lady behind the screen where to do so.
       She said give me your registration and I'll do it for you.  I
       did so, attended my appointment and was out within 12 minutes.
       I then got a request to pay due to non registration.  This was
       untrue - the staff member said it was taken care of.  I
       appealed, explained the situation and got turned away and now
       they have sent a payment overdue notice.  Do I need to start a
       new thread for this?
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 3
   DIR Next Page