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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 98353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 16, 2025, 5:50 am
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Photos of the goods and their weight should be included in your
reps, as well as a copy of the payment record, and anything else
proving the goods were pre-ordered and then collected a few days
later.
#Post#: 98360--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 16, 2025, 6:45 am
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It was 2 garden deck chairs (bulky rather than heavy) - i have
the order confirmation from the previous day giving me 7 days to
collect.
#Post#: 98363--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 16, 2025, 6:56 am
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IMO, you should still present evidence of taking possession on
the day. If you don't have it then contact the store.
#Post#: 98364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 16, 2025, 6:56 am
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and the loading was just a few mintues after the conversation
with the warden and left shortly after. my by miles black box
said the next journey started at 11:43 so that was 6 minutes
after the PCn was issued.
#Post#: 98365--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 16, 2025, 6:58 am
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actually i have an email sent on the day saying the order was
collected (but the order date was the previous day)- is this
good enough, or u mean a specific collection receipt with date
and time. I can try contacting them when they open tomo.
#Post#: 98366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 16, 2025, 7:01 am
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Pl post what you have.
#Post#: 99379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 23, 2025, 3:50 am
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sorry for the delay. I have a hospital disaster going on at the
moment and could really do without parking stress but i also
know harrow council wont give me any leniency if i miss their
deadline even in medical emergency scenario!
Here is what I have:
the insurance BB data time stamps of my arrival 11:33 not 11:31
the b&Q collection confirmation emailed on the day in question
but the order date was the previous day.
I have quickly drafted something - i want to put somethign in
before the discount period and then forget about it for awhile
while i focus on the hospital crisis.
im hoping the above is enough for the moment and if i need
something more sold from b&q direct then i can deal with that at
a later time.....i dont really have time for faffing now, ive
justs logged on quickly to sort this.
please advise if the beow is good enough for now?
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t1kp47x4zjtfgsiv9relu/B-Q-Order-Collection-15.11.25.png?rlkey=qncp7gqvgjlylx7n6sk4sikrm&st=h10tzype&dl=0
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qy0kepom73mdapmy1g5dw/By-Miles-Black-Box-recording-15.11.25.png?rlkey=84ee4vvmod12cfoh7qif0c9fl&st=51gak8kr&dl=0
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice.
The PCN alleges that my vehicle was stationary in a loading bay
while loading was not observed from 11:31 to 11:36. I dispute
this allegation on two grounds:
1. Incorrect observation start time
- The Civil Enforcement Officer recorded the start time as
11:31.
- My insurer’s GPS‑controlled black box records my
vehicle as not stationary until 11:33.
- This discrepancy suggests either clock asynchrony or
premature recording by the officer while I was still manoeuvring
into the bay.
- The final enforcement photograph, time‑stamped 11:37,
clearly shows my indicator lights turning on as I returned to
open the vehicle for loading. This demonstrates that I was
engaged in loading activity within four minutes of parking,
consistent with the black box record.
2. Legitimate loading activity
- I was present to collect a bulky garden furniture order
from B&Q.
- Loading encompasses not only the physical transfer of goods
but also the preparatory steps: confirming the order, waiting
for staff and opening the vehicle to receive the goods.
- I explicitly informed the officer that I was loading and
that the B&Q staff were bringing the goods out. His response —
“this is for commercial vehicles only” — was incorrect, as the
signage stated “Loading Only” without restriction to commercial
vehicles.
- The bay was therefore used exactly as intended, and loading
activity was in progress throughout the observed period.
**Supporting evidence attached:**
- B&Q order collection receipt.
- By Miles black box data showing stationary time commencing at
11:33.
- Enforcement photographs, including the 11:37 image showing
indicator lights activated as I opened the vehicle to load.
In light of the above, the PCN is unsustainable. The observation
period was flawed, and legitimate loading was clearly taking
place. I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled.
#Post#: 99382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 23, 2025, 4:59 am
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Looks OK, but don't be surprised if they reject it. All the
London councils ruthlessly game the system in this way, knowing
that most people then just cough-up to get the discount, not
being au fait with parking law.
#Post#: 99423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 23, 2025, 11:16 am
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thanks for you input. if anyone has any suggestions to make
stronger let me know asap- otherwise i will submit this and deal
with the inevitable rejection at a later date when i have more
time.
Im fed up with harrow and these pcns, every single prior one has
been won either DNC or at tribunal, and i imagine they will make
a fuSS about that again even though the others are irrelevant to
this one - first one ever for loading!
#Post#: 99426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 23, 2025, 11:54 am
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You're not formally challenging. These are informal reps.
IMO, your focus is wrong: you parked in a loading bay and were
engaged in loading and here's the proof in the form of a
description of your activity and evidence from the store.
Forget about obs times, what are you trying to do, initiate a
debate between the accuracy of your system v the council's? Why
bother?
I was loading, here's the proof.
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