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#Post#: 98292--------------------------------------------------
Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 15, 2025, 1:06 pm
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Hi All,
I just received the attached PCN for being parked in a loading
bay to receive a B&Q order. As there was no space immediately
behind B&Q I had to park down the road, and then walk round to
collect. I parked at 11:33 as can be evidenced by my GPS
synchronized black box installed in my car by my insurance
company to calculate miles, and returned at 11:37 to see the
warden photographing my car! I immediately said i am loading and
its not been even 4 mins, and he said "this is for commercial
vehicles" and "check the PCN for the time stamp - i logged 5
mins!"- I said i just walked round for the B&Q order and its
only just turned 5 mins now and he just told me that I can
appeal.
What a joke. he must have been lurking and logged it the minute
i walked out of the car and either he's falsified the time or
his clock is obviously out of sync with my clock - either way we
are arguing over 4/5 minutes in loading bay whilst actually
loading!
What's the best way to appeal this one to get it shut down
early? My experience with harrow is they take things all the way
to tribunal even when they are obviously in the wrong.
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dmglma5fx9jggu14ro3cx/IMG_2379.PNG?rlkey=2o7a9a0jx4tfgcrj3b56kr69f&st=uvnuljbl&dl=0
#Post#: 98300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 15, 2025, 1:40 pm
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Post-up a GSV link to the exact location, please. If the bay is
only for goods vehicle loading, the sign must say so.
#Post#: 98302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 15, 2025, 1:57 pm
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sorry i dont know how to do that. but if you punch the details
into the harrow website it shows the photos. it just says
loading only. nothing about commercial vehicles.
#Post#: 98304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 15, 2025, 2:38 pm
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--- Quote from: dbcc33 link ---
>
> sorry i dont know how to do that. but if you punch the details
into the harrow website it shows the photos. it just says
loading only. nothing about commercial vehicles.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please type in your reg number and PCN number;they are very
difficult to read on your photo of the PCN.
Do you not know how to use GSV at all ?
Here is the parking bay at the back of B&Q : -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pa1NbLPgPTiPKrjRA
So where where you parked on it ?
#Post#: 98305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 15, 2025, 3:10 pm
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PCN IY00811794
REG LL15VTK
I was parked down the other end near the shops where the
deliveroo drivers hang around
the sign is the same as where u have it tho- loading only
#Post#: 98310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 15, 2025, 3:55 pm
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As you were returning to your vehicle at the end of loading,
what were you carrying and was this noted by the CEO?
#Post#: 98317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 15, 2025, 4:35 pm
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Yes down to what was being loaded.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/1ty2pk5h/h3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/3mLPXkHK/h2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/prfwHXz4/h1.jpg
#Post#: 98320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 15, 2025, 5:23 pm
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OK, so you were loading pre-ordered goods from B & Q and the bay
is at the back of pedestrianised St Anns Road on which B & Q
lies. Your car was parked here, all spaces nearer St Annes Road
being occupied : -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z1XiqErN8p5iBz4i9
So you should submit representations that you were engaged in
loading of pre-ordered goods bought from B & Q. It is important
to emphasise "pre-ordered' because just going shopping and
leaving one's car in a loading bay fails the test of "loading".
You will need to state that on returning to your car, you spoke
to the CEO and explained that you had collected goods and were
now loading them into your car. DOn't be put-off by council
tosh that usually says "loading must be continuous and the
vehicle attended". This is total tosh and they know it. HOwever,
they will automatically send you a FOb-Off letter because they
know that >95% of people then cough-up to get the discount. You
should also put in that the CEO told you the bay was for
commercial vehicles, which is also complete tosh. This CEO needs
a training refresher !
There may also be a 'technical' appeal argument based on Harrow
mismanagement of the enforcement process, incl. fatal errors in
their web pages for paying and submitting reps. Our Hippocrates
is something of an expert in these and has a few, (nay, a lot of
!!), council scalps to show for it.
#Post#: 98347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 16, 2025, 5:01 am
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Hi
Yes I was loading pre-ordered garden furniture goods from B&Q -
i do have the order as proof but it just says collect within 7
days so not sure how good the evidence is for the exact time and
date. I also have my by miles black bow saying i parked at 11:33
and not 11:31 - i swear i could see the CEO out with his device
while i was indicating left to pull in so altho i can never be
sure, he may even have punched the start time before i actually
stopped OR there was a discrepancy between his clock and mine.
I dont think there will be any dispute on the return time of
11:37 because in the last photo u can actually see my lights are
on as i had opened the car to allow loading.
The slight complication of the story was because i had parked
down the end of the road, i went round to B&Q and told them look
im parked down the road - can u please help bring out the
furniture thre as i cant carry it, so when i ran back to the
car it was to open the boot for the B&Q man to follow me and
load, ie i was not carrying the goods - so maybe thats why he
thought i wasnt loading but not really as hed already issued the
ticket! i explained that i just came back to tell B&Q man to
come now and he can see if he waits and he just wasnt interested
saying its commercial vehicles and if im collecting from B&Q to
just appeal.
Questions: I will put my appeal as above, but am i entitled to
ask for photos for the start time of observation?? It was
definitely only 4 mins according to my clock when i returned to
open the boot or actually is that irrelevant as all i have to
say is that i was waiting to load?
#Post#: 98350--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN in Loading bay while loading !!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 16, 2025, 5:46 am
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You parked and left your car.
The CEO saw the locked car in a Loading Only bay without any
signs of loading.
They observed then issued a PCN.
All perfectly proper.
You then returned and saw and engaged with the CEO to whom you
said that the load was being brought to the car imminently and
would they please wait to witness this so that it could be added
to their notes.
They declined.
?? How long after this was the load delivered and what did it
comprise i.e. pl expand on 'garden furniture'.
Seems pretty straightforward if your account is correct and you
can evidence taking possession of the goods on the day -they'll
have a record even if you don't.
IMO, why would you ask the CEO to wait if nothing was going to
be loaded. You'd have looked rather foolish, wouldn't you! I
suspect that even if the authority rejects your reps, an
adjudicator would buy the story, but you'd need some evidence,
so pl post what you have and if nothing to record taking
possession on the day then contact the store.
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