URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 9341--------------------------------------------------
        Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: childofsai
       Date: November 6, 2023, 12:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dear Friends,
       I received this parking ticket this afternoon unaware of the
       special enforcement area, and I wish to contest it as per the
       following:
       - Road was fully covered in leaves, making it impossible to see
       the line markings
       - no other signs were visible around the road
       - when I kicked away the leaves at the back of the car, I can
       clearly see the end of the double yellow line
       - the back wheel of the car and the front wheel of the car are
       not in my opinion overlapping the drop kerb
       It's not 24hrs yet, so I haven't been able to see the council
       pictures yet.
       I would really appreciate some help to draft an appeal against
       this and whether the points I've raised above will work in the
       appeal.
       Here is the PCN:
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/Dpz7dB9/20231105-192720.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/0tmf50C
       Here is a photo I took, showing the state of the leaves and
       where I saw the yellow line had ended:
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/pP7181X/20231105-155354.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/LPF0W0p
       Here is a photo showing where I feel I am not overlapping the
       drop kerb:
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/0FYP25y/IMG-20231105-WA0012.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/9VyRgPH
       Here is the Google Street View Link:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/tcp2SApgquuDsCpS8
       It's strange that Street View shows the road has double yellow
       line, when I definitely could see the line was stopped.
       Many thanks in advance for your help on this.
       Best Regards,
       CoS
       #Post#: 9348--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: November 6, 2023, 4:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       We really need to see the council photos.
       Can you locate online and download them pls
       #Post#: 9352--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: November 6, 2023, 5:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The double-yellow line is nothing to do with the contravention
       on your PCN. The PCN is for parking adjacent to a dropped kerb.
       However, councils seem to believe that this includes the sloping
       kerbstones at each end of the dropped section; it doesn't, and
       many appeals have been won on this point.  The problem is you
       took photos assuming it was all about the yellow lines. We need
       to see your car in relation to the dropped kerb.  I expect the
       council photos will show your position, so we await to see them.
       #Post#: 9388--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: childofsai
       Date: November 6, 2023, 11:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks all.
       Here are the council pictures:
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/0GH0pQR/Image1.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/yQHzmVc
       photoupload
  HTML https://imgbb.com/
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/xjqk030/Image3.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/0My7SQS
       photoupload
  HTML https://imgbb.com/
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/6PhStL0/Image4.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/1qVNXjG
       photoupload
  HTML https://imgbb.com/
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/QKN3nSM/Image5.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/71WdVMK
       photoupload
  HTML https://imgbb.com/
       #Post#: 9391--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: slapdash
       Date: November 6, 2023, 11:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To me that looks to be merely adjacent to the sloping part. Not
       a contravention if so.
       Equally if it is a contravention it is very marginal, likely to
       my view in the realms of de minimus.
       The likelihood is the housholder rang up to whinge. Council send
       a CEO who appeases.
       You may want to have a search both her and on pepipoo for an
       informal challenge to adapt.
       Cross reference the photo to google maps may make it more
       obvious.
       #Post#: 9396--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: Pastmybest
       Date: November 6, 2023, 11:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       No way is this a contravention you can see the wall and gatepost
       on the 4th council photo and you are on the edge of the sloping
       kerb at worst, and while councils like to think the slopping keb
       counts the law says it does not
       #Post#: 9401--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: November 6, 2023, 11:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OK, so here is GSV looking at the house and dropped kerb to
       driveway you allegedly contravened: -
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/73eKVUjqjo97bqK99
       You can just about make out the end of the low wall in front of
       the property. if you then extrapolate at right angles from that
       to the kerb line, you get to the low end of the prominent
       sloping kerb stone. Comparing the council photo with GSV leads
       me to conclude that there was no contravention, as your car was
       only adjacent to the sloping kerbstone.
       Do note, however, that you may well have to take the council to
       London Tribunals for an unbiased opinion. But first to get
       there, you must first submit representations to the council. You
       can submit two lots, one informal against the PCN, and a second,
       formal representation against the Notice to Owner, which you
       have yet to receive. ONce rejected at NtO stage, you can then
       appeal to London Tribunals, but not before then.
       So, statutory ground of "the contravention did not occur".
       #Post#: 9411--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: November 6, 2023, 1:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
       >
       > No way is this a contravention you can see the wall and
       gatepost on the 4th council photo and you are on the edge of the
       sloping kerb at worst, and while councils like to think the
       slopping keb counts the law says it does not
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What he said.
       I suspect this is one where the resident complained and the cEO
       put on a PCN rather then argue.
       #Post#: 9413--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: November 6, 2023, 2:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Pastmybest link=topic=868.msg9396#msg9396
       date=1699292225]
       > No way is this a contravention you can see the wall and
       gatepost on the 4th council photo and you are on the edge of the
       sloping kerb at worst, and while councils like to think the
       slopping keb counts the law says it does not
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What he said.
       I suspect this is one where the resident complained and the cEO
       put on a PCN rather then argue.
       [/quote]
       +1
       What CEO wants to argue with an irate resident !
       #Post#: 9449--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow, code 27 parked in special area adjacent to footway,
       Pangbourne Drive
   DIR By: childofsai
       Date: November 7, 2023, 3:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Many thanks everyone for your assistance. I have submitted an
       informal challenge online to Harrow Council. I'll let you know
       the progress as it comes.
       Best Regards,
       CoS
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 2
   DIR Next Page