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#Post#: 9323--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: Neftlix
Date: November 5, 2023, 5:08 pm
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A guest of ours has received a £100 PCN for parking overnight in
a VISITOR space. Need guidance on best way to appeal this.
For context, our block of flats we live in has a private car
park with spaces numbered by our door numbers (10,11 ,12 etc)
but also 3 visitor spaces just labelled “V”.
The parking enforcement company has failed to give us new
permits for our own designated parking spaces - these permits
expired 8th October 2023. It is currently 5th November 2023 & no
sign of new permits for the year despite a few of my neighbours
having emailed the company responsible. A neighbour received the
following from the company when requesting: “Please be advised
we are still awaiting approval from the client of the car park”
as a explanation why they couldn’t get hold of more visitor
permits nor new designated passes.
In addition to permits for designated spots, they also have
these paper permits which you’re meant to give visitors but many
of us don’t have any left as they are one use & other neighbours
have requested more along with their new permits - still to no
avail. The signs displayed don’t reference “visitor” spots & you
wouldn’t actually know that you need this piece of paper for
parking in a VISITOR spot. Absolutely absurd to need a permit
for visitor space in my opinion.
The signs that are visible state:
“ Valid Parking Permits Only. Park Only Within The Lines Of Your
Permitted Allocated Bay. Permit holders must clearly display a
valid permit inside the front windscreen of the vehicle with all
details clearly visible at all times.”
Given the fact that genuinely none of us have “valid” permits
(they’re all expired 08/10/2023), signs are unclear regarding
visitor spaces & there’s confusion regarding the control of the
car park - is this enough ground for appeal or if not, what else
can we look into? TIA
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 9327--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 5, 2023, 5:27 pm
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It may be beneficial if the recipient of the notice posts
directly, as it can occasionally turn into a game of Chinese
whispers otherwise, and they are the one who is going to need to
submit any appeals, or legal defences if it goes that far.
Another thing to note, so that they are going into this with
their eyes open, is that regardless of the strength of any
appeals, VCS are likely to reject them, as are the 'Independent
Appeals Service'. VCS can be litigious, so if they're going to
fight this, your guest may need to be prepared to defend
themselves in the County Court (Small Claims track).
It would be helpful to see a copy of the notice they have
received.
One point to note is that the signage looks 'forbidding' -
there's no consideration offered to the driver, only to those in
possession of a permit, so one could argue that no contract was
formed.
#Post#: 9387--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: thevaliant
Date: November 6, 2023, 11:21 am
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Who owns the land on which your visitor parked?
Or more accurately, who employed the parking management company?
If the land is owned by a freeholder, who is the freeholder? Did
the freeholder delegate parking to a PPC?
In residential parking situations, the status of the land (is
this communal held by the freeholder?), the relationship with
any management company, and their relationship with any PPC is
probably more important than signs.
Over on Pepipoo, at least one case arose where a block of flats
had the Residents Association (which has no legal standing in a
lease) employ a PPC.
#Post#: 13344--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: Neftlix
Date: January 5, 2024, 2:20 pm
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Apologies! Lost the login but just got back on. I am the one
listed on the fine now - they sent me a payment reminder of
£170. The property managing firm informed me that our specific
property manager contacted VCS to drop the charge but VCS
emailed me today stating they received nothing of the sort.
Firstport, our property managers, said they’re aware of the
delay & seems to accept responsibility.
I have recieved a “demand for payment” letter today & just
wondering what I should prepare if it comes to county court. I
100% feel like the delay between the companies should not punish
myself.
Whats comical is that they’re sending the payment reminder to
myself at the postcode that apparently where the fine incurred -
shouldn’t this clearly show that it’s a bogus charge & VCS
shouldn’t waste their time to pursue Bizarre!
#Post#: 13345--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: Neftlix
Date: January 5, 2024, 2:22 pm
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STILL NO SIGN OF NEW PERMITS BEING ISSUED TO US RESIDENTS. VCS
claim they sent the permits to firstport late November but we
haven’t got them - firstport have stated they’ll be delivering
them next week. Does this help prove my case?
#Post#: 13351--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 5, 2024, 4:48 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I am the one listed on the fine now
--- End Quote ---
How?
You'll need to tell us exactly what correspondence has been sent
by you or your guest to VCS in relation to the parking charge.
You've still not answered any of the questions asked by me or
thevaliant. We can't help you unless you help us to do so.
#Post#: 13352--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: Neftlix
Date: January 5, 2024, 5:10 pm
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In regards to me being addressed. I presume they changed the
address to myself as I was conversing with them a lot on email?
Kinda out of the blue. Attached is the most recent letter.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 13353--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 5, 2024, 5:12 pm
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Then we need to see the contents of those emails.
And the answers to the several questions already asked.
#Post#: 13354--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: Neftlix
Date: January 5, 2024, 5:13 pm
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I’m not entirely sure owns the land. I’ve tried to find this out
- FirstPort property managers are the people who deal with
everything & I had confirmation from FirstPort that our specific
property manager, Vanessa Crane, contacted VCS to reverse the
charge - this is something VCS said never happened. My flat is
leasehold but I’m just a tenant renting. Our tenancy agreement
includes car parking space. I’m not aware of any resident group
except there’s an annual meeting to discuss service charges from
FirstPort (but I’ve never had experience with this as all
included in rent).
#Post#: 13355--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 5, 2024, 5:18 pm
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We could do with seeing redacted copies of the emails between
you and the parking company, to see why they might be writing to
you instead of the guest.
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