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#Post#: 9945--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2023, 12:27 pm
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--- Quote ---
> The bottom of the sign is over 10 mtrs from ground level
--- End Quote ---
You sure of that !
10 metres is 32 feet; a double-decker bus is 14 feet, so more
than double the height of a London bus. Something wrong
somewhere !
#Post#: 9951--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: BH1001
Date: November 12, 2023, 1:02 pm
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Oh yes well spotted - sorry I meant feet not metres :D
That makes a bit if a difference, but would 10 feet not be too
much either?
#Post#: 9956--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2023, 1:24 pm
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--- Quote from: BH1001 link ---
>
> Oh yes well spotted - sorry I meant feet not metres :D
>
> That makes a bit if a difference, but would 10 feet not be too
much either?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's too high for me, but I'm not an adjudicator. Problem is if
the sign is too low, a lorry or bus will obscure it, if too
high, the motorist will miss seeing it !
#Post#: 9959--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: BH1001
Date: November 12, 2023, 1:52 pm
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So is there nothing in the guidance that stipulates how high or
low the sign needs to be? I looked but couldn't find anything
...
#Post#: 9972--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2023, 4:14 pm
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Whilst there may be nothing, councils and also TfL are under a
duty to place such signage such as to clearly convey to drivers
the restriction. Of course, whether signs are adequate or not is
subjective. For TfL all is perfection, so you'd have to put the
argument on inadequacy to an adjudicator.
#Post#: 9973--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: BH1001
Date: November 12, 2023, 4:16 pm
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Okay well then wish me luck
#Post#: 9977--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2023, 4:25 pm
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--- Quote from: BH1001 link ---
>
> Okay well then wish me luck
>
--- End Quote ---
OK then. Good Luck !
#Post#: 10242--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 14, 2023, 4:40 pm
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--- Quote from: BH1001 link ---
>
> I will go over and take some pictures
>
> Is there any defence regarding unlawful signage?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, but there's a defence of inadequate signage. I suggest you
show us the photos you've taken so we can advise you on the
strength of your case.
#Post#: 10293--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: BH1001
Date: November 15, 2023, 5:12 am
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Hi
Thanks for the reply
Unfortunately I have already submitted my representations as it
was getting a bit tight for time.
The link to the pictures is here
HTML https://imgur.com/a/x6LoZOK
#Post#: 10508--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ non payment PCN Main Road Biggin Hill
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 18, 2023, 6:15 am
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I don't think the photos have been taken at a particularly
helpful angle, certainly the 2nd photo showing the driver's view
appear to have been taken from a "convenient" angle and an
adjudicator could well make an adverse inference from that.
If you want to take this to the tribunal, go back to the
junction and stand next to the "Skill Hill Lane" sign here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/PMDCuNRFqgpG4wFAA
and get some
wide-angled photos showing the whole width of the road.
As far as I can work out, the offside sign that should be
visible to the driver emerging from the junction wouldn't be
visible because it's turned 90 degrees and is now parallel to
the road, but you've not taken any photos to illustrate that
point. If that particular sign is not visible to someone pulling
out of the junction, that's your strongest point.
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