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#Post#: 12665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 19, 2023, 2:53 am
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--- Quote ---
> How do I submit this challenge? Do I have to wait until I
receive a NtO first?
--- End Quote ---
You wait for the NtO, and follow the instructions on it. With
the state of the Christmas post and assorted bank holidays keep
an eye on the timetable and check the online status to see when
NtO sent. Missing responding to NtO can be messy.
Meanwhile, take on board HCA's detailed suggestion and either
use it verbatim or work it up into your own draft, posting it
here for comment.
#Post#: 13624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: January 12, 2024, 1:24 am
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I've received the NtO and have a week left to reply.
Please could you advise if my draft below is okay. The link
given to submit representations
(
HTML https://hillingdonparking.apcoa.co.uk/)
is the same as the
informal appeal I made previously and there is no option on
there to make representations against the NtO specifically -
it's looks as if I'm just making another informal challenge to
the PCN, is this correct?
Also, should I select one of the options under PCN
wrongly/unfairly issued as the reason for my appeal or select
'none of the above'?
Draft response:
The authority will be aware that the council have placed a sign
to diagram 668 (from Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016) at both ends of the road, one outside number 9
St. Mary's Road and another outside number 59 St. Mary’s
Road/Hayes Town Chapel. The conveys the meaning that on this
side of the road a vehicle may park with 4 wheels on the
footway. This permission remains in effect until terminated by a
sign to diagram 668.2. There is no such sign between either end
of the road (number 9 St. Mary’s Road/number 59 St. Mary’s Road)
and St. Mary's Walk. The CEO's photos show that I was parked in
this length of street and therefore permitted to do so by virtue
of this sign. For this purpose, it is irrelevant that I was
parked within the scope of a waiting restriction whose presence
may not form a part of the authority's consideration.
Strangely, in the authority's rejection of my informal
representations reference is made to me being parked 'before a
sign' which as explained above is totally incorrect. What I
would accept is that beyond my car in St. Mary's Walk (situated
by the flank wall of number 33 St. Mary's Road) are further
footway parking signs. However, these are conflicting because
one of these indicates the end of a non-existent 'two-wheel'
parking area (at this point the sign outside number 9 St. Mary’s
Road still has effect) while the other indicates the beginning
of a different permitted footway parking permission, which I may
add is with a non-specified sign which is therefore unlawful
unless the council have obtained the Secretary of State's
authorisation.
In short:
My car was parked within a permitted '4-wheel' footway parking
area;
My car was parked in contravention of a waiting restriction
which I accept was poor parking on my part but not the
contravention in dispute;
The effect of the sign outside number 9 St. Mary’s Road is
conflicted by a mix of signs outside 33 St. Mary's Road (albeit
situated in St. Mary's Walk), one of which is prima facie
unlawful.
In conclusion, the contravention did not occur, and the
authority has no basis on which to reject these representations.
The PCN must therefore be cancelled. Should the authority not be
minded to do so, then they must give cogent reasons based upon
evidence and not, as in their earlier rejection, simply make
statements which are not supported by objective facts.
Yours,
Attachments:
Diagrams 668; 668.2 (source Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions 2016);
Google street view screenshots of signs outside numbers 9, 59
and 33 St. Mary’s Road.
Should I add the attachments as links to images uploaded
somewhere or directly attach the images?
#Post#: 13671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: January 12, 2024, 1:05 pm
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directly attach the images then that if fine for representations
#Post#: 16644--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: March 1, 2024, 6:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all
I've received a Rejection of Representations letter to my
representations as suggested above. I don't think the rejection
really addresses the points in my appeal (just like the previous
rejection didn't) and there is not evidence for their points but
I would appreciate any advice and whether you think it is worth
appealing further and what my chances would be? I have about a
week left to pay the reduced charge if it is not worth
appealing.
pt1 -
HTML https://postimg.cc/fSZTsRpz
pt2 -
HTML https://postimg.cc/sMz8JZSD
pt3 -
HTML https://postimg.cc/B8RQbgLn
Thanks
#Post#: 16645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 1, 2024, 6:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's a load of tosh.
They go on about double-yellow lines, and these indeed, do apply
to the footway where you parked, but they didn't serve a PCN for
that, but for parking off-carriageway. The plain fact is that if
they don't want people parking on the footway by the yellow
lines, they should issue a PCN for that and not for parking
off-carriageway when they allow this on the street concerned.
#Post#: 16952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: March 7, 2024, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So what are the next steps to appeal again? What can I say for
my grounds for appeal as it seems saying the same thing will
return the same response.. :(
If I appeal again and it's unsuccessful would I still have the
option of paying the reduced charge?
#Post#: 17167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: March 12, 2024, 7:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Bumping for advice/visibility
#Post#: 17170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 12, 2024, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Once the Notice to Owner is served, the discount is long gone,
so if you submit formal representations, it is for the full PCN
penalty. Having said that, many councils re-offer it to
encourage you not to go to adjudication, where the penalty
remains the same with no extra costs. Councils find it a PITA to
prepare evidence packs. However there is no legal right to the
discount at this stage.
#Post#: 17695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: March 19, 2024, 9:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Once the Notice to Owner is served, the discount is long gone,
so if you submit formal representations, it is for the full PCN
penalty. Having said that, many councils re-offer it to
encourage you not to go to adjudication, where the penalty
remains the same with no extra costs. Councils find it a PITA to
prepare evidence packs. However there is no legal right to the
discount at this stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fair enough, makes sense.
How do I proceed with going to the adjudicator? Do I just repeat
what I said in the previous appeal, even though the council keep
ignoring those points?
#Post#: 17876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs
allow parking
DIR By: pepipooper
Date: March 20, 2024, 4:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Bumping again as I have a day or so left to submit my appeal to
the adjudicator and could really use some advice.
Appreciate the help in advance.
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