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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 96817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: NewJudge Date: November 4, 2025, 12:11 pm
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[quote]The photographic evidence does not showing us prior to or
passing under the gantry. That evidence they have in their
possesion - it is a full defence to this.[/quote]
How do you know what they have?
The photographs you’ve posted here are the standard set for
those detected speeding by HADEC3 systems: two photographs of
the vehicle after it had passed the gantry and one taken almost
simultaneously of the gantry display (to show the limit that was
displayed). There is sometimes a fourth showing close-up of the
vehicle for identification.
Why would they have – or require – photographs of your vehicle
prior to you passing the gantry? The offence is only committed
when you pass the speed limit sign.
From what you have shown us, the offence seems complete. What
you will be suggesting to the court is that the gantry display
changed between the time you passed under it (when you claim it
was showing “50”) and the time your vehicle was snapped and a
photograph of the gantry display was taken simultaneously,
probably about a second later. On top of that you will be
arguing that (a) the delay in enforcement of at least ten
seconds (I think the delay is actually a minimum of 60 seconds,
but no matter) after a change of limit failed and (b) that the
system showing that the lower limit had been imposed for more
than an hour prior to your arrival was also faulty.
If your contention about the "manual override" of the system
overcoming these constraints is sound you will need to get some
evidence of that. I don't know whether such a difference in
operation exists but my instinct would suggest to me that it
does not.
What you are asking for on here is concurrence with your line of
defence. Going on what you have shown us I cannot concur and I
doubt the court will unless you come up with some other evidence
to show that the system had failed - or had been overridden as
you describe.
If you do find out that anything was amiss with the system do
let us know. I, for one, am intrigued.
#Post#: 96818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: Southpaw82 Date: November 4, 2025, 12:15 pm
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Well, ignore any offers, go to court, plead not guilty and see
what happens.
#Post#: 96840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: ukdriver1981 Date: November 4, 2025, 1:53 pm
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"Yes, smart motorway speed limits can be changed manually by
staff in the Regional Control Centres (RCCs), as well as being
set automatically by computer systems."
"Manual Intervention: Operators in the Regional Control Centres
also monitor the motorways via CCTV and data from the sensors.
They can manually intervene to set speed limits and display
warning messages or "Red X" lane closures in response to
real-time events like accidents, breakdowns, or roadworks,
overriding the automatic system when necessary."
This is what has happened I feel because someone has panicked
that three lanes ahead are closed and all traffic has
bottlenecked into the slip road. However even at 50 it wasn't
an issue as there was plenty of distance in which to slow down
and react.
If it was not due to an imperfect automated system than this is
the only explanation left. Someone switches it and the
automatic grace period doesn't apply for the obvious reason that
there is an imminent danger. Don't forget a car behind us was
also flashed - why would he be doing over 40 when it was likely
the change came into his view - it's because he either did not
have time to react and the grace period was not afforded to him
either.
#Post#: 96843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: Southpaw82 Date: November 4, 2025, 2:03 pm
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It’s not us you have to convince.
#Post#: 96850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: andy_foster Date: November 4, 2025, 3:17 pm
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So, your explanation for how your version of events differs from
the evidence disclosed is that there was manual intervention due
to a perceived serious danger (as opposed to reducing the speed
limits because the operator is bored), *and* that due to the
perceived serious danger, the 10 second grace period enshrined
in statute was over-ruled because the most effective way to
convey an immediate threat is to issue an illegal NIP through
the post. And to falsify the logs as to when the limits changed.
Lets assume for a moment, that the evidence was falsified, and
that those who falsified it have evidence that they did so. How
are you planning on getting them to pony up that evidence?
And perhaps more importantly, who do I invoice for the popcorn?
#Post#: 96868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: ivanleo Date: November 4, 2025, 6:03 pm
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[quote author=ukdriver1981 link=topic=8538.msg96813#msg96813
date=1762278741]
Why isn't there a photo of my vehicle passing underneath is the
question and answer to all of this.
[/quote]
The Crown will say that no such evidence is required, HADECS 2
cameras didn't have any gantry photos at all and plenty of
people were still found guilty. The technical answer is probably
that the camera is triggered by a speeding vehicle, and they
don't constantly film the gantry just in case a speeding car
goes past.
[quote author=ukdriver1981 link=topic=8538.msg96813#msg96813
date=1762278741]
Yes it did happen in seconds and I would say a couple because we
have travelled about 40 metres in that time.
[/quote]
If the Crown presents credible evidence as to how the system
works, and expert evidence that the system was working at the
time, the court will presume that the system was working
correctly and it will be your burden to show that it wasn't.
[quote author=ukdriver1981 link=topic=8538.msg96813#msg96813
date=1762278741]
There is either an issue with the grace period not being
implemented on the particular roundel/ gantry camera, or and I
have read that the speed limits can be switched manually by an
actual person yes a person
[/quote]
The Crown will simply argue that you are mistake or are lying,
saying you've read something somewhere won't get you far. If you
want to pursue this line of defence, you need to instruct an
expert witness who can back up your hypothesis with some solid
science.
As noted above it doesn't matter what we think, we're not the
ones you have to convince. But if you try arguing a defence like
this without expert evidence to back it up, your chances of
success are remote in the extreme unless the CPS doesn't present
any evidence or the police miss the six month prosecution
deadline.
#Post#: 96905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: NewJudge Date: November 5, 2025, 7:03 am
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[quote]Someone switches it and the automatic grace period
doesn't apply for the obvious reason that there is an imminent
danger. [/quote]
Having though about it, I believe there would be absolutely no
point in doing that. It is quite obvious that a vehicle almost
upon the gantry (or indeed just beyond it, as you claim) cannot
possibly reduce speed in an instant. The purpose of reducing the
speed limit is for safety.
The only reason to reduce the "grace period" to zero would be to
prosecute drivers who had no chance of complying with the
reduced limit and that would be malicious. It would do nothing
for the primary aim of safety.
I may appear naive but I do not believe the police or the
Highways agency would be complicit in imposing such a system and
for that reason I believe you may be mistaken in your
assumption. But so might I.
#Post#: 101204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: andy_foster Date: December 5, 2025, 1:07 pm
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Dunno if the OP is still around, or receiving notification for
responses, but this thread jumped immediately to mind when I
looked into the Cancelled speeding NIP
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/cancelled-speeding-nip/<br
/>thread.
Whilst this does not change the advice given, or provide the OP
with a defence per se, it seems plausible that there might be
some fall-out that would at least give some degree of credence
to the OP's evidence, or possibility that police might change
their stance.
#Post#: 102591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please help with unfair speeding ticket
By: MrChips Date: December 15, 2025, 5:17 pm
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Drivers fined after speed camera issue across major A-roads and
motorways | UK News | Sky News
HTML https://news.sky.com/story/drivers-fined-after-speed-camera-issue-across-major-a-roads-and-motorways-13483868
[mod edit: The next person to helpfully post another link to the
same story, without indicating what new information that
outlet's parroting the same press release brings to the table,
as regards the OP's case. will be taken outside and shot]
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