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#Post#: 95413--------------------------------------------------
Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley Council/TFL)
Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: nuvolablue
Date: October 24, 2025, 9:47 am
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Hi, as the registered keeper, I received a Penalty Charge Notice
from Bexley Council (TFL) through the post today 24/10/2025. PCN
XL9774108A. Notice attached.
The driver of the vehicle made a right turn from Upper Wickham
Lane into Coton Street on 11/10/2025 at 15:11 in the afternoon.
A Mobile Camera Enforcement Vehicle parked on Coton Street took
the photo and video evidence.
There is no signage on the road indicating that right turns are
prohibited. There is a sign prohibiting U-turns. But the driver
of the vehicle turned right. This is clearly shown on the photo
and video evidence. See link.
Pictures from Google Maps clearly showing there is no signage
for prohibited right turn. Only prohibited U-turn.
Please advise how this penalty charge can be appealed. Many
thanks.
Penalty Charge
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/ZbI8T7c_xl.jpeg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/FI0LAFm_xl.png
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Zxp3pIC_xl.jpeg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/niG6GFZ_xl.jpeg
Google maps
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/X8OeLKK_xl.jpeg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/6cLQxZi_xl.png
Photo evidence
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/U7aWRlQ_xl.jpeg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/ps7lGnn_xl.jpeg
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/DcFkusk_xl.jpeg
Video Evidence
HTML https://youtube.com/shorts/OajUVFyYAts?si=MkDuZqIgodDXKj8D
#Post#: 95459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 24, 2025, 1:04 pm
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Frankly, I don't think you are on strong ground here, because
the layout is clearly designed to prevent traffic from turning
right into Coton Road: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/B87boiFpeJtsFUws6
The hatched area indicates that the area encompassed is not part
of the carriageway for the conveyance of traffic, and one should
only enter it when necessary; making this turn is not a
necessary move. In addition, you have to U-turn then immediately
turn left. OK I may be wrong, so see what the others say, but I
don't see a win here at adjudication, sorry to say it.
#Post#: 95491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: nuvolablue
Date: October 24, 2025, 6:24 pm
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That's helpful and I can see how it could be interpreted that
way. My argument was that I was making a right turn (my vehicle
is small enough to enable me to make that turn) without the need
to make U turn first. I live close by and I see small vehicles
and mopeds making that turn often.
Notwithstanding that the layout of the road is designed not to
make right turns, shouldn't this be made explicit by the display
of a no right turn sign?
Be helpful to see if others share your view and I will happily
concede and pay the fine at its discounted amount.
Thanks.
#Post#: 95590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: nuvolablue
Date: October 26, 2025, 12:55 am
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Any other contributions please from the resident experts on this
site?
Many thanks.
#Post#: 95591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: SITR
Date: October 26, 2025, 1:49 am
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--- Quote from: nuvolablue link ---
>
> Notwithstanding that the layout of the road is designed not to
make right turns, shouldn't this be made explicit by the display
of a no right turn sign?
>
--- End Quote ---
Why would there need to be a sign when there's literally a
built-up central crossing island in the way? The island finishes
in line with the kerb of Coton Rd, meaning you have to make a
u-turn to be able to turn into the road no matter how small your
car is.
Take it on the chin and pay the reduced rate.
#Post#: 95592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: October 26, 2025, 2:32 am
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My advice to all readers is not to drive in a manner which the
road planners don't intend and then you will get less unwanted
PCns in the post.
I would play dumb with the council and write in saying that they
have not stated a sufficiently alleged contravention on the PCN
but left you to guess which one applies especially as their cctv
is from a side road and doesn't show a sign.
Don't expect them to cancel, to win you will have to risk the
full penalty value at the tribunal and if you do challenge the
council they do not have to offer the discount again. I think an
adjudicator will find you did a u-turn because you did the very
thing which the sign is clearly intended to prevent.
Only the vague PCN may save you.
in tribunal case 2130412623 the adjudicator found the following
but it isn't a precedent, another adjudicator may decide that
the type of banned turn is obvious from the layout:
The Penalty Charge Notice ('PCN') in this case describes the
alleged traffic contravention as Failing to comply with a sign
indicating a prohibited turn. However, the PCN fails to
particularise what turn is prohibited, left or right. Also,
whilst the Penalty Charge Notice ('PCN') includes superimposed
pictures, it is impossible to see in the copy filed any actual
traffic sign(s) that the appellant is alleged to have failed to
comply with and there is no copy of the sign(s) themselves
superimposed on the PCN.
In the circumstances, I find that the PCN is invalid and
unenforceable as it fails to comply with the requirements of
section 4(8)(a)(i) of the London Local Authorities and Transport
for London Act 2003 ('LLA & TFL Act 2003'), which states that
the PCN "must (a) state (i) the grounds on which the
council...believe that the penalty charge is payable with
respect to the vehicle".
In these circumstances, I must allow this appeal.
Don't quote this case to the council, just play dumb as above.
#Post#: 95599--------------------------------------------------
Re: Penalty Charge Notice 50J - Prohibited Turn (Bexley
Council/TFL) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling
DIR By: nuvolablue
Date: October 26, 2025, 4:44 am
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--- Quote from: mrmustard link ---
>
>
> I would play dumb with the council and write in saying that
they have not stated a sufficiently alleged contravention on the
PCN but left you to guess which one applies especially as their
cctv is from a side road and doesn't show a sign.
>
> Don't expect them to cancel, to win you will have to risk the
full penalty value at the tribunal and if you do challenge the
council they do not have to offer the discount again. I think an
adjudicator will find you did a u-turn because you did the very
thing which the sign is clearly intended to prevent.
>
> Only the vague PCN may save you.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks. This is the most helpful response so far.
Good to know there is a small chance of getting this overturned,
But I don't have the balls to go to full tribunal.
So I will probably just pay the discounted rate.
Hope this discussion helps others.
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