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#Post#: 95376--------------------------------------------------
APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: icedspurs83
Date: October 24, 2025, 3:33 am
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Background:
- Parked on evening of 23 October
- Thought payment had gone through in app (it had not - totally
my mistake)
- Realised at 4pm the day after. Made payment immediately on
app. Returned to car at 7pm to see ticket (issued at 10am)
- Notice left on vehicle on return (images below). £85 charge -
reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days
- Notice left on vehicle on return (images below). £85 charge -
reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days
- Car is on a a salary sacrifice lease from my employer. So I am
not the registered keeper. If a notice gets sent to them, I get
charged an administration fee (and it takes a long time to go
through their internal process)
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Notice received is as follows:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/mCFvhWC8/IMG-9701.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/11b91kX/IMG-9702.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/84zFgtsZ/IMG-9703.jpg
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Signage in car park
Apologies - I have not had a chance to go back out to the car
park. I will do so to take pictures of the signage.
The street view (
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZnzJLeR9a94Vazqm7)
has
some blurry images of the signage.
Request
This was ultimately my mistake. And if the answer is to just pay
up then so be it.
But £50 feels somewhat extortionate and I just wonder whether
there is anyway to mitigate my cost.
Thanks
#Post#: 95377--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: jfollows
Date: October 24, 2025, 3:37 am
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How much is the administration fee? That might influence your
decision.
#Post#: 95384--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: Dave65
Date: October 24, 2025, 4:22 am
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What does it say in any paperwork you have about the lease
company charging admin fees?
#Post#: 95452--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: b789
Date: October 24, 2025, 12:52 pm
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As the car is leased to you, and you are not the Keeper, you are
the Hirer, the way the lease company should deal with this for
them to receive the Notice to Keeper (NtK) and then they
transfer liability to you by providing APCOA your details and a
copy of the lease and liability declaration. You then receive a
Notice to Hirer (NtH) from APCOA which is very easy to deal with
and you won't be paying a penny to APCOA as long as you do not
identify the driver.
As for the admin fee from the lease company, you may not be
obliged to owe it to them, depending on the wording in your
lease agreement and references to invoices from private parking
firms. This is NOT a "fine" or a "penalty" issued by any sort of
"authority". It is simply a speculative incline from an
unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of
contract by the driver.
As you cannot respond to that Notice to Driver (NtD) as the
Keeper, you are kind of stuffed unless you admit to being the
driver and pay the charge. The only saving grace is that if you
don't pay it, apart from loads of useless debt recovery
threatening letters, nothing will happen because APCOA do not
litigate. You can safely ignore all debt collectors as they are
powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the
low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
If you can persuade the lease company to give you a Letter of
Authority (LoA) to act on their behalf as the Hirer, then you
could appeal it as the Hirer. However, unless you get that LoA,
you cannot do anything until you receive an NtH.
It is very easy to appeal once you have either an NtH or LoA
because the driver is not identified (no legal obligation to do
so to an unregulated private parking firm) and they cannot
transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Hirer as
the location of the alleged contravention is on land that is not
relevant for the purposes of PoFA 2012.
This would be the appeal if you were the Keeper or to receive an
NtK or NtH:
--- Quote ---
> I am the Hirer. APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any
alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control.
As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they
cannot use the PoFA provisions because TfW Newport Station is
not 'relevant land'.
>
> If the TfW wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under
Railway Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and
another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded,
it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the
landowner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to
be a penalty. It is created for APCOA’s own profit (as opposed
to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has
relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver
only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have
no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete
waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 95669--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: icedspurs83
Date: October 26, 2025, 3:20 pm
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Thank you all.
The lease company has a charge of £15 - so not end of the world.
And as you say - I may be able to defend.
I note the point you've made about them transferring liability
and it being easy to appeal on the basis the driver is not
identified.
A few questions from me:
(1) I think the lease company can provide me with a LoA. Do I
need to wait until APCOA send the notice to them and they
transfer liability to me, or can I take any proative steps to
appeal this in the meantime?
(2) Also - can I just check, once in motion - will APCOA accept
this appeal and remove the charge? Or will I need to go through
POPLA?
#Post#: 95680--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: b789
Date: October 26, 2025, 5:16 pm
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APCOA usually concede for a no PoFA case. I doubt you'll get an
LoA. All the lease company has to do is pass liability to you as
the Hirer and then APCOA will send you a new Notice to Hirer
(NtH) which you will appeal.
#Post#: 95814--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: icedspurs83
Date: October 27, 2025, 4:52 pm
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Thanks.
Sorry if this is made clear above, but do I need to wait 28 days
for APCOA to send the notice to the lease company (and for them
to transfer liability to me)? i.e. I cannot appeal now as I am
not the keeper?
If that is the case, should I proactively reach out to the lease
company to inform them I have an incoming ticket? When I
previously received a fine (see here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/premier-park-pcn-not-parked-wholly-within-bay-capital-shopping-park-cardiff/msg84809/#msg84809),<br
/>the lease company automatically paid it and I had to fight
them
for months to get them to repay me etc.. I could certainly go
down that path but it would be more helpful if I could deal with
it now and have the matter closed.
The lease company did send me a LoA (despite paying it...) last
time, so maybe they would send me one this time. If I had one
prior to the 28 day period, could I fight this and close it down
before it even gets to the lease company (again, to save a
further fight for the admin fee?).
Thanks
#Post#: 95819--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: b789
Date: October 27, 2025, 5:04 pm
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So, you have a moronic lease company that has no understanding
of the law. Unless you have an LoA that covers this PCN, you
cannot respond to the NtK. So, you can proactively approach the
lease company but you need to make it very clear that they MUST
NOT pay a PCN as it is nothing but an invoice for an alleged
breach of contract by the driver and NOT a "fine" or "penalty"
as no "offence" has been committed.
All they have to do when they receive the NtK, is transfer
liability to the Hirer (you) as instructed on the NtK. Once they
have transferred liability, they will o longer have any
liability and it will all have been transferred to you, the
Hirer.
Once liability is transferred, the parking operator must issue a
new Notice to Hirer (NtH) to you, in your name and you can
easily see this off.
If the lease company pays it, you can ONLY try and persuade them
to not charge you for their mistake or, if necessary, sue them.
#Post#: 95870--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: icedspurs83
Date: October 28, 2025, 5:24 am
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Ok so could you please confirm my understanding:
- If I can receive a LoA (specific to this PCN) ahead of APCOA
issuing the notice to the lease company:
> I can respond to the PCN and appeal.
> The consensus is that APCOA should allow the appeal and
the matter should be closed.
- If I can't recieve the LOA ahead of APCOA issuing the notice
to the lease company:
> I should ensure the lease company do not pay (contact them
ahead of time) and instead, all they should do is follow the law
and transfer liability to me.
> I can challenge the lease company for any admin fee on the
basis this is not a "fine".
> Once I receive the NtH, I can respond to the PCN and
appeal.
> Again, the consensus is that APCOA should allow the
appeal and the matter should be closed.
For the appeal in either scenario - I can use the wording above
(i.e. "APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any alleged
contravention on land that is under statutory control...").
Is that correct?
#Post#: 95881--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
DIR By: InterCity125
Date: October 28, 2025, 6:30 am
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Your ability to challenge the lease company will depend on the
precise wording in your contract. If they only use the wording
"fine" or "Penalty" then you'd be on pretty solid ground.
However, if they use further terminology which could be
interpreted to mean a private parking charge then you'd be on
thin ice.
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