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#Post#: 97794--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: Rudeboyz
Date: November 12, 2025, 3:11 am
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Received the TfL DVD yesterday, which has the footage of me
allegedly performing a prohibited turn.
Click link below to play video.
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/Wbsyiwa#tR4w8Oo
#Post#: 97795--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: Rudeboyz
Date: November 12, 2025, 3:15 am
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Good morning Hippocrates,
Thanks for the tip. 8)
#Post#: 97804--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: JoCo
Date: November 12, 2025, 4:26 am
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Does the video show that OP's car is committing a contravention
at all?
Part one of video shows OP's car stopped at traffic lights -
from whence the registration number is lifted. Black car, make
and model indistinguishable.
Part two is from a different camera and shows one of many black
cars, in contravention turning right, at a different location.
The registration is unclear.
How does the council prove that they are the same car?
#Post#: 97806--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2025, 4:31 am
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If you take them to London Tribunals, they will show how the two
videos are linked in their evidence pack, (or they should do, if
you query this). Be aware that adjudicators work to the civil
standard of "on the balance of probabilities", not the criminal
standard of "beyond all reasonable doubt".
#Post#: 97809--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: JoCo
Date: November 12, 2025, 4:49 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> If you take them to London Tribunals, they will show how the
two videos are linked in their evidence pack, (or they should
do, if you query this). Be aware that adjudicators work to the
civil standard of "on the balance of probabilities", not the
criminal standard of "beyond all reasonable doubt".
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not doubting that they can link the videos.
My point was that all the second video shows is that a black car
is in contravention.
How do they establish that the car turning right is the OP's
car?
It's hardly distinctive, and several cars in a row are black.
#Post#: 97813--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 12, 2025, 5:14 am
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I cannot see any traffic signs in the video other than the road
marking Ahead Only with an arrow. This is a regulatory sign, but
does failure to comply give rise to the cited contravention?
IMO, no.
The PCN is certainly flawed. Hippocrates is the expert regarding
the wording on page 1, but (and I hadn't noticed this before)
they also misstate their power/duty on page 3.
The PCN states:
Your representation may be disregarded if it is received more
than 28 days after service of this notice.
OP, the Act requires that a PCN 'must state':
3)The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations
which are received by them after the end of the period of 28
days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice
in question was served.
I've emphasised the key words to illustrate why what is written
is not what's mandated. '28 days after service' is a period
which is 1 day longer than '28 days beginning with the date of
service'.
Not only is this wrong in its own right, it conflicts with page
1.
This is because the authority may not serve a charge certificate
to increase the penalty until the period for making reps has
elapsed. Page 1 says they can if, among other matters, you have
not made reps before the end of the period of 28 days beginning
with the date of service.
They've really got themselves into a pickle!
#Post#: 97816--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 12, 2025, 5:26 am
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This is what the PCN must state:
A penalty charge notice under this section must—
(a)state—
(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be,
Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable
with respect to the vehicle;
(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the
period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the
amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified
proportion;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the
28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;
(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be
sent; and
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be
entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1
to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be
made.
******************
Only this. Not elements from Schedule 1 actually.
#Post#: 97860--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 12, 2025, 7:21 am
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A PCN must be clear and not confuse.
IMO, the following sections provide sufficient support for any
argument relating to the 'may disregard' point:
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be
entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1
to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be
made.
IMO, given that the reference to 'disregard' is in s1 of
Schedule 1, 'specifying the form..' would include the time
period. I would certainly argue this point.
#Post#: 97877--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 12, 2025, 9:27 am
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Schedule 1 does not need to be included.
#Post#: 97887--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 12, 2025, 10:11 am
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Prior to ss (viii) of S 4 of the Act doesn't refer to
representations at all, their first and only mention is in
ss(viii). Therefore, if interpreted too narrowly, the defence of
conflation could not succeed because there's no requirement for
the PCN to refer to representations at all because S4 doesn't.
But it does succeed, and you've been successful with arguments
based in this very point, therefore IMO it must follow that
adjudicators regard para. 1 of Schedule 1 to be mandatory by
virtue of ss(viii).
If we disagree, so be it, let's not distract the OP.
For me:
Where's the signage?
If the road marking, then the contravention is wrong;
Whose car?
Flawed wording of PCN
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