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#Post#: 94757--------------------------------------------------
20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: facade Date: October 20, 2025, 3:32 am
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I live in the middle of a bit of Urban Sprawl, a couple of
estates that have mingled together.
The whole area is a 20MPH zone, with the correct entrance signs
at the start of every road leading in (to diagram 674 of The
Traffic Signs Manual 2019 Chapter 3
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf)<br
/>and regular speed humps within 100m of each other.
However, following resurfacing (when the humps were removed),
one of the streets that enters the zone, which is 250m long, has
no traffic calming measures from the list in TSM 2019 Ch3 8.7.1.
within 100m of the entrance sign.
What does this mean for the zone?
Does the speed limit revert back to 30MPH only on this street
between 50m from the entrance and 50m from the nearest traffic
calming feature on the road that this one joins?
Does the entrance sign become non-enforceable due to non
compliance with 8.7.1 (as if it didn't exist) and it is
therefore possible to enter the zone along this road and never
see a 20 MPH sign to diagram 670 or a compliant entrance sign to
674, so the whole zone is non-enforceable if it cannot be
proved that you didn't enter along this street?
(The obvious solution is for The Council to come out and nail a
couple of those "spinebreaker" plastic humps to the road less
than 100m apart, but it has been several months since
resurfacing)
#Post#: 94765--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: andy_foster Date: October 20, 2025, 4:31 am
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Speed limit signs have never been enforceable.
#Post#: 94770--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: facade Date: October 20, 2025, 5:02 am
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Assuming that there is a TRO creating the 20MPH zone (I have no
reason to doubt it exists) then to prosecute excess speed within
the area covered by the TRO, there needs to be the correct
signage in place to communicate that the speed limit is 20MPH
within that area.
In the case of a 20MPH zone, this would be the entrance signs to
diagram 674 and the existence of prescribed traffic calming
measures such that all points on through roads within the zone
are within 50m of one.
(A 20MPH limit would require terminal signs and regular
repeaters to diagram 670- speed humps on their own are
meaningless- I honestly have no idea if the TRO for a 20MPH zone
would cover it's changing to a 20MPH limit)
TSM 2019 states that in order to use the entrance sign 674 it
must comply with schedule 10 (of TSRG2016) which states that no
part of a road within the zone (apart from a cul-de-sac less
than 80m long) can be more than 50m from a traffic calming
feature, measured along the road.
So it would seem to me that all of the entrance signs are
defective because a single part of the zone does not have
calming features, therefore the TRO is not communicated properly
and an attempted prosecution for speeding anywhere within the
zone could be successfully defended.
The alternative is that only the 250m street fails to
communicate the TRO due to missing/defective signage, so an
attempted speeding prosecution within that street could be
defended, but you could defend any prosecution within the zone
if your claim to have entered via that street could not be
disproved.
Am I correct?
#Post#: 94780--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: andy_foster Date: October 20, 2025, 5:56 am
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Is there a compliant system of street lighting? If so, s. 85(4)
RTRA 1984 is not engaged, so what statutory provision are you
relying on to create a defence? Or are you arguing that the TRO,
and therefore any offence is nullified by the missing sleeping
policeman?
#Post#: 94809--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: facade Date: October 20, 2025, 8:12 am
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I am arguing that the TRO restricting the area to 20MPH cannot
be enforced due to signage that is defective/non-compliant with
TSM/TSRG. (Caused by the lack of traffic calming in just one
street of the zone)
I hadn't thought whether the 20MPH TRO would have removed the
previous blanket 30MPH indicated by the compliant system of
street lighting, I was suggesting that an attempt at prosecution
between 25-30 MPH could be defended. If the 20MPH TRO cannot be
enforced would that mean that any speed could be successfully
defended?
#Post#: 94810--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: andy_foster Date: October 20, 2025, 8:18 am
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So, you're not proposing any legal mechanism to connect the
defect to a defence to a speeding allegation.
#Post#: 94891--------------------------------------------------
Re: 20 MPH Zone (traffic calming removed)
By: NewJudge Date: October 20, 2025, 4:22 pm
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[quote]If the 20MPH TRO cannot be enforced would that mean that
any speed could be successfully defended?[/quote]
If the TRO cannot be enforced I would imagine the road reverts
to being a "restricted road" - i.e. subject to a default 30mph
limit.
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