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#Post#: 9106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 3, 2023, 10:20 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> There is no video on their website, the box for it is blank.
>
--- End Quote ---
It takes about 10-15 secs for it to load on the council website.
URL:
HTML https://reading.zatappeal.com/
Penalty Charge Notice Number : RG91813766
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) : AF11SRV
#Post#: 9107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 3, 2023, 10:21 am
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--- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
>
> Video's not working for me.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Quote ---
Try here, but you have to wait about 10-15 secs for the video to
load from just a black box:
URL:
HTML https://reading.zatappeal.com/
Penalty Charge Notice Number : RG91813766
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) : AF11SRV
#Post#: 9192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 1:39 pm
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Video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ8zi-YsN2U
I'll start with the bad news, and why basically everything you
say is misconceived.
The video shows you in the bus gate length of road at 4:43 pm,
there's no doubt about that.
A bus gate such as the one here can be enforced under code 34j,
see the decision of the High Court in Oxfordshire County
Council, R (on the application of) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator
[2010] EWHC 894 (Admin)
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2010/894.html.
The blue signs seen here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/nzx32DLehwcvmvUY8
create the
restriction, and there is space before the bus gate to turn
around. No road markings are required for this type of
restriction, as you're meant to know not to drive past the signs
(it might be that you're not familiar with these signs, but
that's obviously no defence).
The council is not required to provide any evidence at this
stage, indeed the fact that they provide any evidence at all is
above and beyond what the law requires. All they need to provide
is the essential details of the contravention, and either you
accept liability or you contest. If you take the matter all the
way to the tribunal, at that stage the council must prove its
case with evidence, but that's a long way off.
Realistically we have to assume the council would provide photos
of the signage at the tribunal, it is possible they might mess
up the evidence pack but it would be a massive gamble to risk
the full penalty just on that (and most of the time this gamble
would not pay off).
Arguments about whether the PCN has a "next page" or the
appropriate tick-boxes are misconceived and would be dismissed
as an argument over semantics,
Arguable grounds:
The most obvious point is the will / may flaw on the PCN, see
for instance the decision in Nigel Houlton v Reading Borough
Council (RG00028-2002, 22 June 2020)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Y-zAgsVsNR2FfYMyfTBvSCzejsS2lEaB,<br
/>the majority of adjudicators accept this but one or two don't,
if you look up "will / may" on this spreadsheet
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit#gid=642784037<br
/>you'll see all the relevant decisions.
The other issue worth exploring is whether the council could
realistically prove that its camera device is in fact approved,
so I've made some enquiries about that.
Lastly there's the link approach explained here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/l-b-waltham-forest-50r-performing-a-prohibited-turn/msg7581/#msg7581,<br
/>which is a strategy of last resort. However rather than making
a
plea for discretion, it would seem sensible to construct a
representation that provides the authority with links to
relevant will / may decisions, which is a much more solid
argument that mere mitigation.
Please let us know if that all makes sense to you, and give
others a chance to comment. Once you've read up on the will /
may issue I can draft a representation for you if you're happy
to go ahead with the strategy I propose.
#Post#: 9415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 6, 2023, 2:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your consideration and detailed response. I would
welcome your help in drafting a representation based on the plan
you outline.
I was originally thinking that the semantics of errors on the
form, and other arguments I made, might be useful to add weight
to the appeal and nudge the Council towards not bothering to
make a case to the Adjudicator and owing to this, the
Adjudicator would find in my favour? If you dont agree, happy to
defer to your greater experience.
Thanks again.
#Post#: 9802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 10, 2023, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me know if you have an update for me. Many thanks.
#Post#: 10186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 14, 2023, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Please don't bloat-quote, it makes the thread unnecessarily long
and hard to follows.
Here is a draft:
[indent]
Dear Reading Borough Council,
I challenge liability for PCN RG91813766 on the basis of a
procedural impropriety, I refer you in particular to the
decisions in Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge
Wells BC) (KU-00042-1810, 07 December 2018) at LINK1 and Nigel
Houlton v Reading Borough Council (RG00028-2002, 22 June 2020)
at LINK2.
In light of those decisions the PCN should be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they will
redirect to
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1EoqML5pVDJePtRNZ11St3yHfKbSK8IuZ<br
/>and
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Y-zAgsVsNR2FfYMyfTBvSCzejsS2lEaB<br
/>but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the
click
count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not
(obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the
click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we
can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence.
If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the
evidence, we've got them for lying as well.
#Post#: 10385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 16, 2023, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Response from Reading Council:
[indent]
The CCTV enforcement camera outside 1 Station Road and visible
from the link provided is a LaneWatch Mk3 / MAV HD:IP provided
and installed by Yunex Traffic.
[/indent]
#Post#: 10526--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 18, 2023, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Please don't bloat-quote, it makes the thread unnecessarily
long and hard to follows.
>
> Here is a draft:
>
> [indent]
> Dear Reading Borough Council,
>
> I challenge liability for PCN RG91813766 on the basis of a
procedural impropriety, I refer you in particular to the
decisions in Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge
Wells BC) (KU-00042-1810, 07 December 2018) at LINK1 and Nigel
Houlton v Reading Borough Council (RG00028-2002, 22 June 2020)
at LINK2.
>
> In light of those decisions the PCN should be cancelled.
>
> Yours faithfully,
> [/indent]
>
> I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they
will redirect to
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1EoqML5pVDJePtRNZ11St3yHfKbSK8IuZ<br
/>and
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Y-zAgsVsNR2FfYMyfTBvSCzejsS2lEaB<br
/>but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the
click
count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not
(obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the
click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we
can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence.
If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the
evidence, we've got them for lying as well.
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks and sorry for the slow reply - I was travelling for
work last week.
This is excellent & I received the separate links. I was
thinking of making written representations by post, also harder
for them to casually click a link. Do you advise either way?
Many thanks.
#Post#: 10650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 19, 2023, 3:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mg82 link ---
>
> I was thinking of making written representations by post, also
harder for them to casually click a link. Do you advise either
way?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, send it online.
Two reasons for this: letters send in the post can get lost,
while for an online representation you get instant confirmation
that they've received it, and you can take a screenshot of the
confirmation page to put the matter beyond doubt.
Secondly, you cannot click on a link in a paper letter, which
would undermine the whole argument and could make you look
vexatious.
#Post#: 11861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: December 4, 2023, 11:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Borough of Reading (Bus Lanes) (A33) Order 2018
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1llR1QXcOZE2sXTHZkd8hf39LR9G7xblz
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