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#Post#: 9006--------------------------------------------------
Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 2, 2023, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All, hope you can help me out with this one as it doesn't
feel right.
I was driving in bad weather and following satnav, not a defence
I know, but my actions weren't deliberate.
I was approaching the rail station along Garrard Street
(eastbound direction), and exited across the red brick road onto
Station Road - where the 'bus lane' / authorised vehicles
section is.
I just got the PCN a few days ago, and would like to build a
defence in the representations and then if these are rejected,
take it to the adjudicator.
Things that feel wrong about this:
1. Timestamp error on the photo vs the PCN. All the camera
footage (except the weird black and white one) show 16:42, but
the PCN states 16:43.
2. No bus lane (just authorised traffic) although the
contravention is for being a bus lane.
3. The Road markings are incomplete and worn.
4. No actual evidence of the contravention, ie no accompanying
photos of signs, times of operation, etc - or me driving through
them.
5. No space for turning to avoid the bus and taxi road, and no
warnings further up the street.
6. Are the road signs correct? There is a lot of debate on here
about that, but I would like to hear whether they are in your
opinion.
7. The PCN has a number of errors:
a) Mentions a Tick Box for the representations (A-G), but no
tick box provided.
b) Mixed terminology - says ' OTHER GROUNDS', then the box you
enter the representation into says 'Other Representations'.
c) 'Other Grounds' refers to 'set out those reasons in full in
the box on the following page'. There is no next page, just the
box below.
Would really appreciate any help in disqualifying, or refining
these and making them into a reasonable representation. Or help
with signs or anything that aids my case.
Thanks!
VIDEO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://api.zatpark.com
HTML https://api.zatpark.com/display/video/a01OZk1IRXgzMWxtZFU2TkNvWGtoNEJtNE5sUVdNWjQyOTJhQ29LWSt5TFFjNGZHQnVRSXBaVmV6Y1h6VW15OFcyMWN1OCt1cFVFUzFrdUZOQkZ2aFE9PQ==
PHOTO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eGYYRSIeo7IxhYMDSHj4rh8S_wxGLVdr/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nvuh8BeThfVqiZKQDr0FyUmoA3XzY7EU/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g2PYx74fEfb6Qqb9_boJzjoqy9GgTsgj/view
Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/3JGXWJfLTH1JnmhN7
PCN:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gsbPvJlU-9gb4XJ3FD6V7vQ-s6aP7jX7/view
PCN:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n9yWuURntYvnrXWMKMGP2BWzHA4AN7VH/view
Maps:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PQiUQDd3WGmrzlARi1PEB3L4lr6a_omm/view
Small camera sign:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14sKsamRSH3SUpl4tgSeHvhpglDecYKO1/view
View of bus lane 1:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oCl__r_Cr2PhidhzJyXbcMMmnEX2be1f/view
View of bus lane 2:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qJg3Zrh1oMJsKvmm6iM0tXsk33S-Vf7D/view
Looking back down the road:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vi73UuTbciVQuVqDmRKnzcAK1YfFpWgz/view
#Post#: 9027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 2, 2023, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It is what is called a "Bus Gate" and years ago it was decided
at adjudication that PCNs issued for being in a bus lane were
lawful.
I don't see much mileage in worn road markings as the signs are
clear, plus there is an advance warning sign. No times on the
signs mean they apply 24x7
Photos are not obligatory, but the photo on your PCN is
generated from the video recording which is the sole evidence of
the contravention. You should be able to view it on their
website, and then download it and post it here.
There is room to turn just before the two bus gate signs using
the street for accessing the rear of Garrard House
Lack of warnings of a bus gate as you turn into Garrard Street
is a valid point, but there is a 'cul-de-sac sign as you
approach on Greyfriars Road in a southbound direction, but
nothing at all in the northbound direction.
The signs barring your access are the correct bus gate signs.
The PCN looks OK, except there is an error in the black text box
referring to serving a Charge Certificate. They say "will
serve", but the regulations only allow them to say "may serve".
Whether this is a fatal error, I'm not sure.
There is a lack of advance signage, but that may not win at
adjudication. Others on here may see a killer argument, but at
the moment, I don't.
If you submit representations rather than paying, do be aware
that there is no obligation on them to re-offer th e discounted
amount. Of course if their reply gets to you before t he 21 day
discount period expires, you can pay t the discounted amount,
or, of course, register an appeal at the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal.
Were you using satnav ? Sorry if the above wasn't what you
wanted to hear, but we have to be realistic.
#Post#: 9036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: guest17
Date: November 2, 2023, 12:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP----your comments on the timing on the PCN don't appear to
hold up.
The Council's evidence still shows you in this street at
16.42.58.92 with a very dark photo at 16.43.02.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/f3rzsZUCjRrmbMAe7
To be absolutely sure you must get hold of the video.
Mike
#Post#: 9040--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 2, 2023, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
>
> OP----your comments on the timing on the PCN don't appear to
hold up.
>
> The Council's evidence still shows you in this street at
16.42.58.92 with a very dark photo at 16.43.02.
>
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/f3rzsZUCjRrmbMAe7
>
> To be absolutely sure you must get hold of the video.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks Mike, here is the video and images. I dont appear to be
on camera at 16:43.02 That looks like a post-production
enlargement taken from the earlier video.
VIDEO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://api.zatpark.com
HTML https://api.zatpark.com/display/video/a01OZk1IRXgzMWxtZFU2TkNvWGtoNEJtNE5sUVdNWjQyOTJhQ29LWSt5TFFjNGZHQnVRSXBaVmV6Y1h6VW15OFcyMWN1OCt1cFVFUzFrdUZOQkZ2aFE9PQ==
PHOTO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eGYYRSIeo7IxhYMDSHj4rh8S_wxGLVdr/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nvuh8BeThfVqiZKQDr0FyUmoA3XzY7EU/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g2PYx74fEfb6Qqb9_boJzjoqy9GgTsgj/view
#Post#: 9041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 2, 2023, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> It is what is called a "Bus Gate" and years ago it was decided
at adjudication that PCNs issued for being in a bus lane were
lawful.
>
> I don't see much mileage in worn road markings as the signs
are clear, plus there is an advance warning sign. No times on
the signs mean they apply 24x7
>
> Photos are not obligatory, but the photo on your PCN is
generated from the video recording which is the sole evidence of
the contravention. You should be able to view it on their
website, and then download it and post it here.
>
> There is room to turn just before the two bus gate signs using
the street for accessing the rear of Garrard House
>
> Lack of warnings of a bus gate as you turn into Garrard Street
is a valid point, but there is a 'cul-de-sac sign as you
approach on Greyfriars Road in a southbound direction, but
nothing at all in the northbound direction.
>
> The signs barring your access are the correct bus gate signs.
>
> The PCN looks OK, except there is an error in the black text
box referring to serving a Charge Certificate. They say "will
serve", but the regulations only allow them to say "may serve".
Whether this is a fatal error, I'm not sure.
>
> There is a lack of advance signage, but that may not win at
adjudication. Others on here may see a killer argument, but at
the moment, I don't.
>
> If you submit representations rather than paying, do be aware
that there is no obligation on them to re-offer th e discounted
amount. Of course if their reply gets to you before t he 21 day
discount period expires, you can pay t the discounted amount,
or, of course, register an appeal at the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal.
>
> Were you using satnav ? Sorry if the above wasn't what you
wanted to hear, but we have to be realistic.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks - here are the videos and photos.
VIDEO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://api.zatpark.com
HTML https://api.zatpark.com/display/video/a01OZk1IRXgzMWxtZFU2TkNvWGtoNEJtNE5sUVdNWjQyOTJhQ29LWSt5TFFjNGZHQnVRSXBaVmV6Y1h6VW15OFcyMWN1OCt1cFVFUzFrdUZOQkZ2aFE9PQ=
PHOTO EVIDENCE:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eGYYRSIeo7IxhYMDSHj4rh8S_wxGLVdr/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nvuh8BeThfVqiZKQDr0FyUmoA3XzY7EU/view
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g2PYx74fEfb6Qqb9_boJzjoqy9GgTsgj/view
#Post#: 9042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: guest17
Date: November 2, 2023, 1:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Video's not working for me.
Mike
#Post#: 9045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 2, 2023, 1:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
>
> Video's not working for me.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Quote ---
Nor me
#Post#: 9049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 2, 2023, 2:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=MMV Redux link=topic=840.msg9042#msg9042
date=1698948899]
> Video's not working for me.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Quote ---
Nor me
[/quote]
does this work:
HTML https://api.zatpark.com
HTML https://api.zatpark.com/display/video/a01OZk1IRXgzMWxtZFU2TkNvWGtoNEJtNE5sUVdNWjQyOTJhQ29LWSt5TGZwN3FtY2hNNGppNGozblRJendXM0V0MmJlN1J3eGRPVW1LZjloYUZJYWc9PQ==
Otherwise, can you access the video via the council website?
URL:
HTML https://reading.zatappeal.com/
Penalty Charge Notice Number : RG91813766
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) : AF11SRV
#Post#: 9050--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: mg82
Date: November 2, 2023, 2:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
>
> Video's not working for me.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Quote ---
does this work:
HTML https://api.zatpark.com
HTML https://api.zatpark.com/display/video/a01OZk1IRXgzMWxtZFU2TkNvWGtoNEJtNE5sUVdNWjQyOTJhQ29LWSt5TGZwN3FtY2hNNGppNGozblRJendXM0V0MmJlN1J3eGRPVW1LZjloYUZJYWc9PQ==
Otherwise, can you access the video via the council website?
URL:
HTML https://reading.zatappeal.com/
Penalty Charge Notice Number : RG91813766
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) : AF11SRV
#Post#: 9065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reading Borough Council - 'Being in a bus lane' - Garrard
Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 2, 2023, 6:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There is no video on their website, the box for it is blank.
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