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#Post#: 92826--------------------------------------------------
Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westmin
ster
By: riccume Date: October 4, 2025, 10:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello there! I've just received a parking ticket in London
Westminster for Code 231: Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle (electric vehicles bay).
The bay that I used has no signage that tells you that it is
reserved for electrical vehicles, neither on the pavement not on
the pavement. The bay next to it has signage on the floor
("Electrical Vehs") and on a pole on the pavement ("Electrical
vehicle recharging point at all times. 8.30am - 6.30pm Max stay
4 hours. No return on the same day"). There is a charging point
on the pavement, located between the bay I used and the bay that
has signage about being reserved for electric vehicles.
A copy of the PCN, PCN pictures, my pictures, and Google Maps
screenshots can all be found here
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/x4vmzv3wru4ggx92dx13j/AAc0EUADJtCXjI93hbDhqu8?rlkey=2bqn72gn6wtfppzc0efg8kv9q&st=eicarlqw&dl=0.<br
/>My car is the grey SUV.
I plan to challenge on the basis that it is misleading - but is
it according to the law? Any other advice?
Thank you!
Riccardo
#Post#: 92837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: H C Andersen Date: October 4, 2025, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Pl post a GSV of the location.
I plan to challenge on the basis that it is misleading - but is
it according to the law? Any other advice?
You were parked in a parking space within a parking place. Each
space does not require a traffic sign or road marking. The
limits of the parking place are, in your case, marked by double
lines which indicate that the parking place is internally
divided into parking spaces.
See Section 2, Definitions, of this:
HTML https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/Services-Environment/civil-enforcement-officers-handbook.pdf
#Post#: 92842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: fraser.mitchell Date: October 4, 2025, 1:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]The bay that I used has no signage that tells you that it
is reserved for electrical vehicles, neither on the pavement not
on the pavement. The bay next to it has signage on the floor
("Electrical Vehs") and on a pole on the pavement ("Electrical
vehicle recharging point at all times. 8.30am - 6.30pm Max stay
4 hours. No return on the same day"). There is a charging point
on the pavement, located between the bay I used and the bay that
has signage about being reserved for electric vehicles.[/quote]
Unfortunately you are wrong with this, although I have to say
the carriageway text is misleading. You parked in one of two
spaces in a bay reserved for EV charging. How come, do I hear
you say ? Because if you look behind the photo of your car you
can see a double dashed line perpendicular to the kerb
indicating a bay boundary. To the left it is a normal bay, and
to the right, the EV bay.
I think it is very misleading to have the sign and carrieaway
marking against only one space of the EV bay, so submit reps on
that basis, but the council will reject whatever you say. So you
must be prepared to take them to London Tribunals on the basis
of inadeqate signage under Regulation 18 of the The Local
Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996
see here: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
#Post#: 92845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: riccume Date: October 4, 2025, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=8282.msg92837#msg92837
date=1759600568]
Pl post a GSV of the location.
I plan to challenge on the basis that it is misleading - but is
it according to the law? Any other advice?
You were parked in a parking space within a parking place. Each
space does not require a traffic sign or road marking. The
limits of the parking place are, in your case, marked by double
lines which indicate that the parking place is internally
divided into parking spaces.
See Section 2, Definitions, of this:
HTML https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/Services-Environment/civil-enforcement-officers-handbook.pdf
[/quote]
Thanks. You will find two GSV pix in the folder I shared,
labelled GMaps01 and GMaps02. I see your point; signage
according to the law. I still think it is misleading; there are
two parking bays and the signage is all centred on one of the
two parking bays.
#Post#: 92846--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: riccume Date: October 4, 2025, 1:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Incandescent link=topic=8282.msg92842#msg92842
date=1759603191]
[quote]The bay that I used has no signage that tells you that it
is reserved for electrical vehicles, neither on the pavement not
on the pavement. The bay next to it has signage on the floor
("Electrical Vehs") and on a pole on the pavement ("Electrical
vehicle recharging point at all times. 8.30am - 6.30pm Max stay
4 hours. No return on the same day"). There is a charging point
on the pavement, located between the bay I used and the bay that
has signage about being reserved for electric vehicles.[/quote]
Unfortunately you are wrong with this, although I have to say
the carriageway text is misleading. You parked in one of two
spaces in a bay reserved for EV charging. How come, do I hear
you say ? Because if you look behind the photo of your car you
can see a double dashed line perpendicular to the kerb
indicating a bay boundary. To the left it is a normal bay, and
to the right, the EV bay.
I think it is very misleading to have the sign and carrieaway
marking against only one space of the EV bay, so submit reps on
that basis, but the council will reject whatever you say. So you
must be prepared to take them to London Tribunals on the basis
of inadeqate signage under Regulation 18 of the The Local
Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996
see here: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
[/quote]
Indeed, misleading will be the angle here and will have to go
all the way. Sloppy signage that I'm sure generates nice
revenues for the council (even the GSV image has a petrol car
parked there!).
#Post#: 92852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: H C Andersen Date: October 4, 2025, 3:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The signage (traffic sign includes road markings) is compliant
and satisfactory IMO.
Let's start with your obligations as a motorist i.e. once parked
in a parking place to look for the applicable sign. You were in
a parking space in a parking place and did what exactly? How
could the road marking mislead you unless you saw it, and if you
did and were not an EV and did not charge then at whose door
does this lapse land? Are you suggesting that every parking
space(you call it a bay, but the correct term is space) should
have its own upright sign or road marking?
IMO, you would not stand a chance at adjudication as regards the
contravention.
But clearly there are differing views.
#Post#: 92855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: riccume Date: October 4, 2025, 5:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=8282.msg92852#msg92852
date=1759611237]
The signage (traffic sign includes road markings) is compliant
and satisfactory IMO.
Let's start with your obligations as a motorist i.e. once parked
in a parking place to look for the applicable sign. You were in
a parking space in a parking place and did what exactly? How
could the road marking mislead you unless you saw it, and if you
did and were not an EV and did not charge then at whose door
does this lapse land? Are you suggesting that every parking
space(you call it a bay, but the correct term is space) should
have its own upright sign or road marking?
IMO, you would not stand a chance at adjudication as regards the
contravention.
But clearly there are differing views.
[/quote]
Yes we have different views, but I thank you for taking the time
to review my post and share your opinion and the rationale
behind it.
#Post#: 92858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: fraser.mitchell Date: October 4, 2025, 6:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HCA is correct on a sign compliance basis, but in my view
provides sufficient doubt, that one could claim the council hve
failed the adequacy test in Regulation 18 of the The Local
Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
The point is that whilst its all compliant with the requirements
of the The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions
2016, it may not be adequate. This point has been made by more
than one adjudicator
However, as you can see, views can differ on this aspect.
#Post#: 92929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: d612 Date: October 5, 2025, 1:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just off St John's Wood Road there is another double vehicle
charging twin bay.
This time more properely marked
(Grove End road)
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/EdA5UFkuYRQwTKNN7
#Post#: 92942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Wes
tminster
By: riccume Date: October 5, 2025, 4:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=d612 link=topic=8282.msg92929#msg92929
date=1759687496]
Just off St John's Wood Road there is another double vehicle
charging twin bay.
This time more properely marked
(Grove End road)
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/EdA5UFkuYRQwTKNN7
[/quote]
This is very helpful, thanks so much d612!
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