DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 12252--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: December 12, 2023, 4:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I got a letter through at the weekend saying the charge was
increase to £150
#Post#: 12255--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 12, 2023, 5:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You've left your name & address in.
Did you get a receipt/acknowledgement for your reps?
#Post#: 12257--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: December 12, 2023, 5:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good catch! Thanks
I've re-uploaded
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z2grg8oi6s7r68cwrmsgs/increase.png?rlkey=an3o7ot97ngq1s7kjuphluykt&dl=0
No, I haven't had acknowledgement yet
#Post#: 12258--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 12, 2023, 5:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
>
> No, I haven't had acknowledgement yet
--- End Quote ---
How did you submit? Did you keep a copy?
I am not sure of Scottish processes at CC stage, but someone
here will.
#Post#: 12259--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: December 12, 2023, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have the document saved (I believe)
I mailed it (there's no digital submission option) 1st class.
#Post#: 12260--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 12, 2023, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You posted on 5 Dec.
Hi, I guess reps is the appeal, I got stressed about how long i
had, so sent on Friday
Then:
I mailed it (there's no digital submission option) 1st class.
'Friday' could only mean the preceding Friday, 1 Dec.
You told us that the NTO was dated 8 Nov. The CC says 7th!
So the latest date for submission was either 6/7 Dec.
You posted first-class Fri. 1, therefore the letter was presumed
delivered and submitted (irrespective of actual delivery) on 5th
which is in time in either case.
Post here the copy of what you submitted and leave in all dates
pl.
#Post#: 12262--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: December 12, 2023, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is what I sent, will look out the digital copy as I get
time (am at work so can't spend much time on this at the moment)
I guess I gave the date I received the letter or something :/
I'll try and find that nto too
And yes, Friday the 1st
--- Quote from: Verdomde link ---
>
> I don't really know what to do, so am just sending this
>
> Hello
>
> My car was parked there while for a visit in Perth and had
some food in a Cafe. There was a PCN on the window upon return.
>
> It seems the area in question is supposed to be for council
vehicles only, but it is not marked as such anywhere in or
around the parking bays:
>
> {pictures}
> Clearly there is no appropriate signage, it is only on hunting
around that it can eventually be found that there are white on
white signs hidden in the rafters- from the perspective of a
driver:
>
> {pictures}
>
> It is not acceptable to expect motorists to see such scant
signage.
> to highlight, here is a section from the BPA Code of Practice
> You must place signs containing the specific parking terms
throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to
read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep
a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous
and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they
are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your
detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm
>
> These signs are inconspicuous and camouflaged. As are the
laminated sheets of paper, also out of view above the eye-line
of motorists who are navigating narrow and potentially dangerous
turns and ramps. The below was taken when standing to get an
angle where the laminates are even visible, you can imagine how
hidden they are when in a car!
> {pictures}
>
> The state of the signage around these bays needs to be
reviewed seriously- there should be signs at each parking bay,
or at the very least between each charger, and conspicuous
prominent signage in plain view in the eyeline of motorists. The
signs should not only stipulate that an area is for council use,
but that there may be penalties for others using it. There
should also be clear indication of which area the signs pertain
to, is it just the bays below the signs, the front part of the
area? It is unclear. This is another reason why signage should
be visible to people when parking, close to vehicles, and close
to chargers.
> In the next images you can see more evidence that there is no
signage to indicate the bay should not be used:
> {pictures}
> The a4 laminate that is supposed to pass for a sign is at
least 4 bays away from the vehicle, high up in the rafters, and
hidden from view to cars coming down the ramp by the other
rafters and the angle at which you are driving.
>
>
> It should be noted that any other images considered when
reviewing the signage should be looked at with discretion, a
driver is lower than someone with a camera held high, and a
camera with a flash on will make the signs appear almost visible
from that perspective. Remember it is drivers who will be
expected to notice signage…
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 12263--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: lexy
Date: December 12, 2023, 6:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> I am not sure of Scottish processes at CC stage, but someone
here will.
>
--- End Quote ---
There is no process. Scottish councils have debt recovery powers
that English councils don't have. They don't even need to touch
a court - a charge certificate is as valid as a sheriff court
warrant and can be handed straight to sheriffs officers for
enforcement. That's what the bit about "may be enforced as if it
were an extract registered decree with a warrant for execution"
means. No TEC. No Order for Recovery.
The best thing to do is contact the council ASAP. Scottish
councils have been known to accept late challenges and re-offer
lower payments. The sooner the better. Once they've handed it
over to Stirling Park or Walker Love for collection, you're
pretty much stuffed.
#Post#: 12268--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 12, 2023, 9:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, why do you post beheaded docs?
The CC omits its date! Pl repost so that all 4 sides are
visible, this way we know that everything which needs to be
displayed is displayed.
If, as I suspect, this is simply a case of your letter being
delivered a little later than the last permitted date (actual
delivery being irrelevant in law, it's the presumed date which
counts) then you just need to bring this to the council's
attention - their website even has a chat link. You would not be
arguing the toss about your reps, simply that the CC was
premature. In reality, any council which simply times its
processes with a hair trigger at this time of year is foolish.
The legal reality is that they had no power to issue the CC if
your reps were posted* on 1 Dec.
*- posted doesn't mean posting at 10.30pm on 1st in a post box
whose next collection was Mon. 2pm, it means posting so that it
entered the mail service no later than Sat.
While you're reposting, pl confirm that the postal address used
was the one in the NTO.
#Post#: 14597--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: January 30, 2024, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, thanks for the responses, I didn't get emailed about them,
sorry- I will try sort that (i guess there's a button here
somewhere)
Got a response back from the Parking support team
Date 11/01/2024
Dear Mr ,
Notice of Rejection of Representations
Road Traffic Act 1991 (As Amended)
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number: PK65201252
Date of contravention: 17/08/2023
Location: Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Vehicle registration:
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided
not to cancel your
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
You were given a PCN for parking in an area reserved for Council
Vehicles only.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was given.
You have 28 days from the date of this letter being served to:
 pay £100.00; or
 appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. You can do this
online using the details provided
below. The Adjudicator can ask one side to pay costs if he or
she believes, for
example, that they have been wholly unreasonable. However, the
Adjudicator
rarely asks either side to pay costs. The Adjudicator is
independent and both sides
must accept the Adjudicator's decision.
If you do nothing
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we may send you a
Charge Certificate
increasing the charge from £100.00 to £150.00. You will then
have 14 days to pay the
increased charge. If, after the 14 days, you have not paid the
increased charge, we may
use sheriff officers to recover the money from you. You will
have to pay their costs too.
Delayed Office Opening
for Employee Training
This office will be closed from
8.45am - 11.00am on the first
Thursday of each month.
Communities
Executive Director (Communities) Barbara Renton
How to pay:
online at www.pkc.gov.uk/parkinggateway and click 'Pay online'.
by phone 0345 603 0121
by post Please make your cheque payable to ‘Perth & Kinross
Council’, write your
Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send
it to: Parking Services,
Perth & Kinross Council, Pullar House, 35 Kinnoull Street, PERTH
PH1 5GD.
Yours sincerely
Parking Support Team
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 4
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page