DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 8870--------------------------------------------------
PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park Perth,
parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles only
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Following directions to ev charging, my car was parked in an ev
charging bay in a multistory car park in Perth
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/bpqUrELejqFC9qH18
A PCN was left on the windscreen
I wrote to the MP, then my MP (as you can't write directly), as
I was angered by this- there is no signage anywhere in amongst
the parking bays. Only white signs in the white painted rafters,
at 90degrees to anyone coming down the ramp to park.
I am also very frustrated by the pcn having a non-working
website as the appeals process, and a non working chatbot on the
website to direct appeals, and various other things- why isn't
there an online appeals from the notice to keeper! grr
My car is a lease, and the letter went to them, they paid the
fine and are now going to charge me, they say I can still appeal
for a refund :/ This is very annoying as I had told the to
disregard the PCN via email months ago
the pcn is here
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wmiu4sunul7rwakycnnp0/pcn.pdf?rlkey=ionvudx4tegmf9f0wytlelea0&dl=0
The notice to keeper is in these two links.
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6xnnnnw61wbgzjxpyex5y/Perth1.png?rlkey=1dctyrxyql1f2wkrtvpo84xcn&dl=0
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e6i6capekwqoppdn5nlnr/Perth2.png?rlkey=bk6g119h1l8ksdkxuw2614a6o&dl=0
My corresponence with them via my MP is at this link
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pmzr6gy46im57yjh6qpj9/lettter_to_mp_one.docx?rlkey=emjlxdad6rgqgf8puyrx0xba6&dl=0
(I know I shouldn't have engaged them, just really believed it
wouldn't go this far, the signage is a joke
(pics in the letter all there)
Please help if it's possible, I think it's criminal that they
are trapping people with such rubbish signage, and am so annoyed
at the obfuscated appeals process :/
Also worried I am in a bind now that the lease company paid the
fine angry.gif
#Post#: 8872--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Your Dropbox links don't work, probably because you used
cut-and-past from Pepipoo
Now the penalty has been paid, the legal process is closed, so
not sure what advice we can give as this is a forum for dealing
with active cases.
#Post#: 8873--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I updated the links
FYI- in case it helps anyone else, the front advice doesn't
match the advice on the back regarding the reduced amount - £30
on the back, £50 on the front
The advice from the lease company was in the below :
Reference: PK65201252
Date/Time: 17/08/2023
12:34:00
Authority/Operator Name: Parking Services - Perth
and Kinross Council
Document Type: NTO
Estimated Cost: £100.00
We have paid this for one of the following reasons:
Legislation requires immediate payment by the registered keeper.
We have been instructed to pay on your behalf by your employer.
The offence has been escalated back to Tusker.
We are unable to transfer liability.
We have therefore Paid £100.00 on your behalf along with a
£10.00 + VAT administration fee which your employer will be
deducting from your salary.
The above payment has been made to avoid escalated costs to both
you and Tusker. It may be possible for you to challenge this
fine, to do so please contact the issuing authority directly.
What do you need to do?
If you accept liability no further action is required.
If you do not accept liability, please appeal to the authority.
You have 28 days, from the time the notice is issued, to do this
and instructions on how to appeal are included on the
notification. To enable you to speak with the authority we have
attached a Third Party Authorisation letter. You will need to
send this with your appeal.
Please note we are unable to appeal on your behalf as we are not
the driver of the vehicle.
Should you be successful in your appeal and the authority issues
us with a refund, we will credit the penalty charge amount back
to you.
#Post#: 8874--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like, to your knowledge, they are wrong about my being
able to challenge?
#Post#: 8879--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: November 1, 2023, 5:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you challenge the PCN as per the instructions on the back of
the PCN?
If so, what did you write?
#Post#: 8936--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Verdomde link ---
>
> Sounds like, to your knowledge, they are wrong about my being
able to challenge?
>
--- End Quote ---
To explain all the ins and outs would take ages, so I'll cut to
the chase: you can arguably reclaim the penalty from the lease
company, but you have to be willing to take the lease company to
court.
In short, you can only challenge a PCN if you don't pay it,
payment deprives you of the right to appeal. Where they say
"Legislation requires immediate payment by the registered
keeper" they're being incompetent and thick: legislation gives
the registered keeper 28 days to pay or challenge, they should
have challenged by requesting a transfer of liability.
The bottom line is lease and hire companies are incredibly thick
and stupid and they won't accept they're wrong unless and until
a court tells them, the corollary of this is that unless you're
actually willing to take them to court, there's no point in
doing anything else. Sending letters threatening to take them to
court without following through would be a waste of time.
The question therefore is: are you willing to have a massive row
with the lease company and take them to court to enforce your
rights?
In parallel, you could contact the council and ask them to
refund the payment on the basis that you want to make
representations, and on the odd occasion this can work. The
problem is that if the council simply ignore you or say no,
there is no recourse open to you.
Also as a general rule, involving MPs in PCNs is a waste of
time, they're more likely to mess things up than anything else.
#Post#: 10067--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: November 13, 2023, 8:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, thanks for the advice
Luckily I was able to get the lease company to reverse the
payment, so now am able to deal with the appeals process. I've
until the 5th December I think, though I'd like to start asap,
as am not very sure if that's correct
Anyone able to take a look at my ramblings on the links and see
if I've the making of a good enough defence?
If I appeal with they freeze the process (it says after 05/12
they will add another £50 charge)
I don't know how they get away with such excessive amounts?
Thanks
#Post#: 10071--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 13, 2023, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Luckily I was able to get the lease company to reverse the
payment, so now am able to deal with the appeals process. I've
until the 5th December I think, though I'd like to start asap,
as am not very sure if that's correct..
Sadly, as cp observed 'lease companies are thick and stupid'.
So, what do you mean by 'reverse the payment'?
Also, unless you have a Notice to Owner in your name you have no
standing in this matter, however much you are chomping at the
bit to get involved. Only the recipient of a NTO may make
representations.
So, we and you need clarity pl.
Do you have a NTO in your name? If so, pl post.
If not, what other correspondence do you have?
#Post#: 10144--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: Verdomde
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just a quick response, I am in work and don't think I have the
docs, I have an NTO in my name it is identical to the one posted
above except sent to me and dated 8/11, the lease company sent
the council a release or similar to allow them to contact me.
The lease company cancelled payment of the fine, so it hasn't
been paid
#Post#: 10147--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN number: PK65201252,Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Perth, parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles on
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm still on the hunt for the fine print of clarity.
To recap:
The lease company received a NTO which they paid;
They invoiced you?
They subsequently 'cancelled payment', how we don't know.
Presumably they have notified you that their invoice has been
cancelled.
The council have issued a NTO to you.
The first thing which jumps out is prospective procedural
impropriety. The council may not issue a NTO to you unless, in
response to representations made by the lease company, they have
formally cancelled their NTO. There is no such thing as the
lease company issuing 'a release', this is not how the procedure
works.
I suggest you contact your lease company and ask for copies of
the council's Notice of Acceptance of their
representations(which is the formal cancellation) and the reps
themselves.
If the second NTO is dated 8 Nov. then you have until 7 Dec. to
submit your formal reps.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 4
DIR Next Page