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#Post#: 92581--------------------------------------------------
Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line - Crumpsall
Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: ZXC
Date: October 2, 2025, 10:05 am
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I received a PCN for parking on a yellow line on a restricted
residential street which I appealed on the grounds that I was
parked on a single yellow line outside of the restricted hours
and that I believed the civil enforcement officer had made a
genuine error. I got a letter back from Greenwich council
stating that I was parked on a double yellow line and so the PCN
would not be cancelled.
I genuinely don't think this is a double yellow line.
I have lived and parked on this road for a decade and have
always believed this to be a single yellow line that had been
mispainted as they went round the curve of the junction and
never fixed. The opposite side of the street and all the
surrounding streets are single yellow lines at the junctions,
the two lines don't run exactly in parallel to each other and
the transition from one single yellow to double yellow at the
corner is clumsy and does not look intentionally designed in my
view.
I've checked Google Street view which has photos going back to
2012 and believe that the history over the years shows that it
was definitely a single line back then and looks to me as though
the erroneous second line had been covered over and in the
nearly 14 years since seems to have eroded away and become
visible again. As a long time resident who has always 'known'
this to be a single yellow line I didn't even think it could be
considered a double yellow by an enforcement officer and made no
argument that it was a single yellow line in my initial appeal
to the council.
The letter I've received states that my choices are either to
pay the discounted fee or pursue a formal appeals process but
that I would lose the right to pay a discounted rate if I
appealed again. What would be my best course of action? I have
emailed the parking design team at the council asking for
confirmation that this section is a double yellow as claimed but
I'm not optimistic they'll respond within the 14 days I have to
pay the discount. Would a formal appeal with the evidence I have
be likely to succeed?
I would pay the discount if I'm in the wrong but I just can't
see how this is a legitimate double yellow myself! Would also
welcome any advice on how I might be able to confirm if a
junction has double or single yellows. Is information like this
publicly available? Should I ask my local councillor for help?
All advice much appreciated!
Hopefully images shared below but will try and fix if links
aren't copied correctly.
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#Post#: 92586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 2, 2025, 10:16 am
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It does look like a double yellow but the lines are slightly far
apart and seem to merge into one.
The key is the traffic order. If it shows only a single yellow
line you should win this.
Also, Greenwich currently doesn't provide evidence for a lot of
tribunal cases and loses by default.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/fwh6xz0/g3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/4wQy0Wvr/g2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/gMczB07V/g1.jpg
#Post#: 92595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: ZXC
Date: October 2, 2025, 10:58 am
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Thanks for your reply.
Do you know how I can go about finding the traffic orders so I
could try and verify if it's a single line?
Is there a particular team at the council I need to approach for
these or does TFL hold the traffic orders for London? Or are
these publicly available anywhere that you could point me
towards? A surface level Google hasn't proved fruitful for me!
#Post#: 92597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 2, 2025, 11:12 am
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Greenwich is on Traffweb but doesn't allow public access so we
can't see map-based orders and I can't see another system.
I would contact the parking dept and ask for the traffic order
for the line in connection with the PCN.
#Post#: 92639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 2, 2025, 5:29 pm
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Photos of your car show you clearly parked on a double-yellow
line, so you'll need a very good appeal argument to present to
the adjudicator at London Tribunals. Yes, where the lines
combine and go round the corner is obviously wrong, but you
weren't parked there.
#Post#: 92651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: ZXC
Date: October 3, 2025, 3:25 am
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Hi Incandescent.
My only defense is that I am resident of 10 years and I have
held the long term belief that this has always been a single
yellow line as is the convention on the streets surrounding me.
I.e I didn't arrive out of the blue one day and find a road that
looked on the surface like a double yellow and chance it. In my
situation I moved to a street 10 years ago that was marked like
this and believed that the old line had been covered up and
relined as a single yellow still. I've probably parked in this
exact spot maybe 2 or 3 times a week for the last 10 years and
never once questioned that it was a single line.
[URL=
HTML https://imgbox.com/Oo3CI4fv]https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/47/90/Oo3CI4fv_t.png[/URL]
Do you not think the Google Street view photo history that I
shared in my first post would support the argument that I as a
resident believed I was parked on a single line and would an
argument be likely to win an appeal?
I can see from the photos that the enforcement officer took that
in isolation it may look like a car parked on a double yellow
but when you look at the line without a car parked over it is
there any argument that it wouldn't be clear to a reasonable
driver if it was actually a double yellow or a single yellow
that had been poorly maintained?
[URL=
HTML https://imgbox.com/ciXVgYrL]https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/8c/c2/ciXVgYrL_t.jpg[/URL]
Having examined it quite closely now I think that it was a
single line originally lined wide from the kerb to avoid the
grate and then covered over and relined at a 'normal' distance
to the kerb. The two line vary in width from each other as well
so it's not like a freshly marked perfectly parallel line. To me
this is a confusing marking of it was indeed intentionally lined
this way to be a double. I'm not sure if you or anyone else
knows if there are prescribed widths/distances for double
yellows or a standardised way to note a transition from single
to yellow? And if there's perhaps a loophole of some kind in
situations where lines are poorly marked that might be
successful at an appeal perhaps?
Is there any obligation on the council to maintain lines
clearly? Does it being faded help me at all?
I don't want to waste my time and money if this is not going to
be an argument I'll win but truthfully I genuinely thought it
always was (and still is) a single yellow line!
#Post#: 92659--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 3, 2025, 4:40 am
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As stamfordman says, only the traffic order will decide the
matter.
I see no GSV link on here, have I missed it ? If you claim it
was once a single yellow then previous GSV views should back you
up, but the traffic order is the decider. The other point is
that double-yellow lines are commonly used for street corners to
stop parking, so this being double-yellow would not be unusual.
#Post#: 92708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Greenwich Parking on a supposedly double yellow line -
Crumpsall Street (junction with Abbey Wood Road)
DIR By: catnip
Date: October 3, 2025, 9:23 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> As stamfordman says, only the traffic order will decide the
matter.
>
> I see no GSV link on here, have I missed it ? If you claim it
was once a single yellow then previous GSV views should back you
up, but the traffic order is the decider. The other point is
that double-yellow lines are commonly used for street corners to
stop parking, so this being double-yellow would not be unusual.
>
--- End Quote ---
This GSV seems to suggest it's a single yellow, the timeplate
around the corner confirms the restriction applies 11am-1pm.
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