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#Post#: 92573--------------------------------------------------
Yellow box on T junction
By: seagul Date: October 2, 2025, 9:24 am
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Hi folks,
In one of the poorest council in East London, one yellow box
junction has recently been launched with false hope to
discipline the drivers. Usually you can stay on this box to turn
right while giving the clear path to incoming traffic. But how
about T junction where there will be no incoming traffic except
the traffic on your right & left. Can you legally stay on yellow
box junction while letting the traffic on your left to pass
before you turn right.
#Post#: 92631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: mickR Date: October 2, 2025, 4:24 pm
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where? GSV? or any photos?
#Post#: 93762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: Innocentman Date: October 11, 2025, 5:48 pm
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I think I see what he means. Apologies if I've completely
misunderstood.
He's on the 'vertical stroke' of the 'T' and wanting to turn
right, and the junction has no lights.
His question is can he enter the box and wait for a gap in the
traffic passing left-to-right in front of him before finishing
his right turn maneuvre? i.e. the thing we all do all the time
which is to go half-way when there's a gap in the traffic coming
from your right and wait for a gap on the left, because you'll
grow old and die waiting for a gap in both directions.
Highway Code Rule 174:
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on
the road (see ‘Road markings‘). You MUST NOT enter the box until
your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box
and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from
doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to
turn right.
So the $64,000 question is what is meant by "oncoming traffic"?
Does it mean only traffic travelling in the opposite direction
to you, as implied by the drawing in the HC, or could it include
traffic coming at you from your left?
Has this ever been tested in court/tribunal?
#Post#: 93786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: John_S Date: October 12, 2025, 4:22 am
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Yes, you can enter and stop in a box junction if turning right
out of a side street. But you should only do it if:
(1) there are no vehicles approaching from your right,
(2) your view to your left is obscured, ie you cannot clearly
see traffic approaching from your left (eg Greek Street j/o
Shaftesbury Avenue, London), and
(3) traffic is flowing to your right (ie your exit is clear when
you enter the yellow box).
This has been tested at adjudication but I don’t have any case
numbers to hand.
Bear in mind also, if you pull out and force a vehicle to stop
that’s approaching from your right, then you’ve probably
committed a separate offence of ‘driving without reasonable
consideration’ for other road users (Road Traffic Act 1988, s3).
#Post#: 93961--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: Innocentman Date: October 13, 2025, 7:48 pm
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[quote author=John_S link=topic=8262.msg93786#msg93786
date=1760260932]
Yes, you can enter and stop in a box junction if turning right
out of a side street. But you should only do it if:
(1) there are no vehicles approaching from your right,
[/quote]
Is there a recognised distance for "approaching"? Is a vehicle,
say, 1km away "approaching"?
[quote author=John_S link=topic=8262.msg93786#msg93786
date=1760260932]
(2) your view to your left is obscured, ie you cannot clearly
see traffic approaching from your left (eg Greek Street j/o
Shaftesbury Avenue, London), and
[/quote]
I don't pull out for only that reason, although the junction
where I'm frequently inclined to do so is not a box junction.
[quote author=John_S link=topic=8262.msg93786#msg93786
date=1760260932]
Bear in mind also, if you pull out and force a vehicle to stop
that’s approaching from your right, then you’ve probably
committed a separate offence of ‘driving without reasonable
consideration’ for other road users (Road Traffic Act 1988, s3).
[/quote]
Again, what's "approaching"?
I tend not to pull out knowing that a vehicle to my right will
be forced to stop or slow, but it sometimes happens if I'm there
for too long and a vehicle arrives from the right that was some
distance away when I pulled out.
#Post#: 93992--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: John_S Date: October 14, 2025, 5:34 am
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When turning right out of a side road you should aim to do it in
one movement. If you do pull-out half way, then as a general
rule there should be no vehicles in view to your right.
Basically, “approaching” refers to a vehicle that you can see
coming towards you. If traffic is flowing freely, wait for a gap
in both traffic flows.
If there is slow-moving/queuing traffic on the main road, then
you may need to pull-out half way because your view is limited.
Sometimes if traffic is queuing or slow-moving across a junction
right-to-left, another driver may create a gap for you to
pull-out half-way. If this happens the vehicle would not be
deemed to be “approaching”.
It’s all about proportionality and common sense. If there’s no
advantage gained by pulling-out half way, then wait for a gap in
both traffic flows. Hope this makes sense.
#Post#: 94260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: Innocentman Date: October 15, 2025, 7:58 pm
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Yes, it makes sense.
And the advantage to be gained in pulling out half way is that
drivers coming from the left are far more likely to stop and let
you in than if you're waiting off to their right in a side road.
I don't know where you live, but where I do, there are times of
day when waiting for a gap in both traffic flows could mean a
very long wait indeed. And I mean long. In the absence of
anybody stopping to let you out, hours long would not be an
exaggeration.
#Post#: 94268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: MrChips Date: October 16, 2025, 2:48 am
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So long as the traffic moving across the horizontal part of the
'T' doesn't become stationary, then it's fine to pull into the
box junction and wait to complete the turn.
The legal definition of the offence requires a stop to be due to
stationary vehicles so you can't (or rather shouldn't!) be
punished for waiting in the box junction if there aren't any
stationary vehicles preventing your exit from the box.
If the traffic does become stationary after you enter the box,
then it becomes more subjective. I've seen some decisions which
say the turn right exemption doesn't apply for a T junction as
there's no oncoming traffic. It also depends if you get held up
by another vehicle in front also waiting to complete a right
turn.
#Post#: 94272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: 666 Date: October 16, 2025, 4:20 am
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[quote author=MrChips link=topic=8262.msg94268#msg94268
date=1760600893]
If the traffic does become stationary after you enter the box,
then it becomes more subjective. I've seen some decisions which
say the turn right exemption doesn't apply for a T junction as
there's no oncoming traffic. It also depends if you get held up
by another vehicle in front also waiting to complete a right
turn.
[/quote]
The law seems clear: "... an oncoming vehicle or other vehicle
which is stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn."
#Post#: 94273--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box on T junction
By: MrChips Date: October 16, 2025, 4:23 am
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I agree. For reasons I don't fully understand, several
adjudicators do not.
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