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#Post#: 9122--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 3, 2023, 4:50 pm
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It may surprise you to know that only 1% of PCNs issued ever get
the adjudicators. The discount is just too attractive and
people's ignorance of the law doesn't help either. People have a
touching faith in council probity.
#Post#: 9193--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: allondon
Date: November 4, 2023, 1:42 pm
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I myself was among those 99% that paid without challenging 2
years ago. Not because I trusted the council but because I only
noticed the PCN when I returned home and was reluctant to drive
back and take pictures.
This time I scouted all the corners and found no information on
the event. I am not a football fan - how can I know the council
wardens' hunting days!
Hope my photos and Google Street View will convince that the
signage is inadequate and not "sufficient" as claimed by the
council.
#Post#: 9233--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> I myself was among those 99% that paid without challenging 2
years ago. Not because I trusted the council but because I only
noticed the PCN when I returned home and was reluctant to drive
back and take pictures.
> This time I scouted all the corners and found no information
on the event. I am not a football fan - how can I know the
council wardens' hunting days!
> Hope my photos and Google Street View will convince that the
signage is inadequate and not "sufficient" as claimed by the
council.
>
--- End Quote ---
What too many people forget is that the council has to prove you
are guilty, you don't have to prove you are innocent.
I have seen more than one case where the best evidence of the
signage are the images or videos submitted by the appellant
themselves (just seen such an appeal filed today).
The key is to provide nothing, the council has to positively
prove its case.
#Post#: 11277--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: allondon
Date: November 26, 2023, 5:23 am
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Good morning!
The Notice to Owner has arrived promptly. I wish the council was
that spirited about road repairs or street cleaning...
NTO was added to Google Drive
(
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iUFpvUiMdfO_z2avuU-Ex57oq0SDVj2F)<br
/>as 20231125_175153.
I had no prior experience with representations. Assuming Barnet
website allows to upload pictures, my draft response is below.
Any comments will be appreciated.
Dear Sir or Madam,
My name is [...], I am the owner of the car reg [...] and I'm
writing this to challenge the PCN [...]
The reason is that I believe that the alleged contravention did
not occur.
Location where PCN was issued can be accessed by turning from
Inglis Way left to the Bittacy Hill and then turning right to
either Sanders Lane or Bittacy Road. Nowhere on route there are
CPZ or event date signs and I've uploaded pictures to support
this statement. The signage (or absence of it) is confirmed by
the Streetview
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/Yzm6NarLtmav94UF6.
The
evidence provided for this PCN by the council does not show any
CPZ or event information signs either, therefore there is no way
for a motorist to know when an event is taking place. In the
absence of any prescribed signage no parking permit was required
at the time this PCN was issued.
Please cancel this PCN as there was no restrictive signage and
no contravention took place.
#Post#: 11300--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 26, 2023, 8:44 am
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Why not start at the beginning!
My approach would be:
On Sat 7th October the driver parked in a parking place in
Bittacy Road. As can be seen, this is reserved to 'Resident
Permit Holders MH, Mon-Fri, with additional controls of Permit
Holders only On Event Days ED.
A PCN was issued for the reason that the CEO believed that 7
October was an Event Day.
The council's obligation is to sign restrictions clearly and as
the sign itself did not carry any information regarding whether
7 Oct. was an event day then on the face of it the restriction,
if it existed, was not clearly conveyed and the contravention
did not occur.
I am aware that adjudicators and the courts have held that
signing each parking place in an area where such controls exist
could place an impossible burden upon councils. They therefore
accept that where these locations lie within controlled parking
zones councils may discharge their duty to sign clearly by
displaying information on every CPZ gateway sign.
They have not and do not accept that any burden falls to the
motorist other than to make themselves aware of restrictions by
looking at CPZ signs as they are passed. For example, a council
does not discharge its duty simply by publishing information on
a website: this does not meet the LATOR test.
In this case, the CPZ signs which were passed were located at
**** and did not at the time they were passed carry any
information to warn motorists that Event Day controls apply. It
therefore follows that the council did not convey the
information as required and the contravention did not occur. (if
this is true)
#Post#: 11306--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: allondon
Date: November 26, 2023, 9:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the edited version! I will have to amend the last
paragraph as my challenge is based on the absence of any CPZ
signs on route which is confirmed by my photos and by Google
Streetview. In essence, the signs says a permit is required on
event days but nowhere on route there is information about event
days.
#Post#: 11331--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 26, 2023, 2:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think I would take a different approach, a short one, it will
undoubtedly lead to a rejection but what the heck, it probably
would if you sent the bible.
Dear Sirs
The contravention did not occur as I did not pass a sign
informing me of an event day. My approach was via Frith Lane,
Inglis Way and Sanders Lane (If the last one applies).
Yours etc
---------------------------------------------------------
I am happy to be the representative, either at this stage or
later. mrmustard@zoho.com
#Post#: 11332--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: allondon
Date: November 26, 2023, 2:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your offer. I do not know how these
representations work but I tend to present all my points and
evidence in case the other person is not biased.
#Post#: 11333--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 26, 2023, 2:48 pm
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Let me see, if the council reject an informal challenge most
people meekly pay up the 50% like lambs and the council makes
easy undeserved money.
Remember what Warren Buffett said 'Do I ask the barber if I need
a haircut?'
What you and every poster on here needs to remember is we aren't
here to fight round one, be knocked back and give in.
We are here, with usually solid arguments (we will tell you if
we have an unproven strategy) to get the PCN cancelled somewhere
along the line and pay nothing.
#Post#: 11369--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN: Barnet - 16 Parked in a permit space or zone - Bittacy
Road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 27, 2023, 7:35 am
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You would be telling them that you know what you're talking
about, in particular the burden which falls to them and that if
they hold to the 'it's on the website' line then they would lose
and possibly line themselves up for a costs award because you
had laid out the legal position clearly.
I'm always for putting your strongest case in reps, the
alternative is almost to invite a rejection.
..
In this case, the driver did not see any 'Event Day' notices on
their route into the zone(***, via ***, left at **** etc) for
the very good reason that there weren't any CPZ signs at this
entrance into the zone. It therefore follows that the council
did not convey the information as required and the contravention
did not occur.
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