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#Post#: 92448--------------------------------------------------
SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: Kudus Date: October 1, 2025, 6:10 pm
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Hi I would appreciate any help. I received a NIP on 22/4/25 for
a speeding offence on 17/04/25 for doing 59 in 30mph zone. I am
the RK of the vehicle but I was not driving at the time. I sent
off the details for the individual driving who lives abroad. The
police asked for further details on the individual's licence and
insurance. The individual showed me his license and motor policy
and I shared the information I had to the police to the best of
my knowledge. The police responded by saying it is easy to
nominate a driver abroad and require copies of his documents. I
responded by saying I saw his documents and didn't think (or
know how) to validate his license. In hindsight I regret making
this error and did not think this would happen. On the 24/09/25
I received a SJP notice for 2 offences. Permit the driving of a
motor vehicle otherwise than in accordance with a license - non
endorsable offence. Permit use of motor vehicle with no
insurance. I intend to plead not guilty to both offences as I
feel hard done by this situation. However I am worried as I have
no hard evidence and the police have referred to Section 101 or
the magistrates court act 1980 stating the burden shall be on
the defendant. What advise do you have?
#Post#: 92455--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: DWMB2 Date: October 1, 2025, 6:30 pm
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The first thing that comes to mind is to contact the driver and
ask him to provide you with evidence of his licence and the
insurance he had at the time that covered him to drive your
vehicle in this country.
#Post#: 92458--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: Kudus Date: October 1, 2025, 6:40 pm
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I contacted him when I received the original NIP and again when
the police requested further documenation. Infuriatingly he has
not responded and I can't get a hold of him. I've tried going
through mutuals but no luck. I'm so annoyed at myself I haven't
really experienced this before when lending/borrowing cars.
#Post#: 92465--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: Southpaw82 Date: October 2, 2025, 1:08 am
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It was rather naive of you to lend your car to someone you don’t
seem to know that well. Unless you can prove that the driver was
properly licensed and insured you’re going to have problems.
#Post#: 92475--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: JustLoveCars Date: October 2, 2025, 3:27 am
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[quote author=Kudus link=topic=8251.msg92448#msg92448
date=1759360239]
I intend to plead not guilty to both offences as I feel hard
done by this situation. However I am worried as I have no hard
evidence and the police have referred to Section 101 or the
magistrates court act 1980 stating the burden shall be on the
defendant. What advise do you have?
[/quote]
You should only really plead not guilty if you have a defence.
Feeling 'hard done by' is not a defence.
As you note, most offences require the prosecution to prove your
guilt but some, particularly insurance, the burden is reversed.
(The defendant has to prove the necessary cover was in place)
Without a defence, going to a contested trial will result in an
additional costs bill on top of the sentence (also losing guilty
plea discounts).
#Post#: 92490--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: Kudus Date: October 2, 2025, 4:52 am
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I've never had issues before but I agree it was naive of me to
think this would never happen. Since I don't have any hard
evidence and I can't get hold of him. Is the best course of
action to plead guilty since I would struggle to convince the
court as it's a case of my word against theirs situation. What
charges can I expect from the 2 offences?
#Post#: 92492--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: andy_foster Date: October 2, 2025, 5:17 am
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Struggling to see how s. 101 MCA applies - the driver being
insured is not an exemption to the offence - it removes the
entire legal basis of the allegation.
Case law provides that driving without insurance is a reverse
burden offence - it is very difficult for the prosecution to
prove a negative, and should be trivial for the driver to prove
that he was insured, so for that offence to be workable, there
must be a reverse burden of proof.
However, you have been charged with permitting. I am not aware
of any case law specifically on the burden of proof for
permitting. Whilst it is entirely sensible to impose a reverse
burden of proof on the driver to prove that he was insured, it
does not necessarily follow that the same should hold true for
the person charged with permitting.
Where this starts to make my head hurt is that nobody involved
in the process believes that the person you are accused of
permitting to drive without a licence or insurance was actually
driving. This is what is known as a prosecution under s. 69 of
the Ways and Means Act. They think that you have failed to name
the driver. They think that you have perverted the course of
justice and/or committed perjury, but proving it beyond any
reasonable doubt would be somewhere between too difficult and
impossible.
If convicted, you can expect 6 points and a hefty fine for the
permitting no insurance offence,
#Post#: 92493--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: 666 Date: October 2, 2025, 5:18 am
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[quote author=Kudus link=topic=8251.msg92490#msg92490
date=1759398767]
I've never had issues before but I agree it was naive of me to
think this would never happen. Since I don't have any hard
evidence and I can't get hold of him. Is the best course of
action to plead guilty since I would struggle to convince the
court as it's a case of my word against theirs situation. What
charges can I expect from the 2 offences?
[/quote]
The charges will be those listed on the SJPN. As advised above,
unless you have solid evidence, pleading not guilty will only
result in much higher costs.
For future reference, most overseas insurance policies do not
provide cover in the UK. As well as any criminal consequences,
there is a real risk of uncovered damage to your own car, and of
third-party costs. If, for example, there is a personal injury
claim, your insurer would pay the claim but would recover the
costs from you.
#Post#: 92522--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: Kudus Date: October 2, 2025, 7:43 am
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Thank you for all the advise I will seek some legal advice on
how to proceed but leaning towards pleading guilty as I have no
photographic evidence/copy of the insurance policy he had. The
SJP notes include the police stating that they are unable to
confirm or negate the existence of the driver. I just assumed
the police abroad would be able to handle the chasing of their
end since I have given his adress.
#Post#: 92531--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP Notice - 2 offences
By: JustLoveCars Date: October 2, 2025, 8:09 am
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[quote author=Kudus link=topic=8251.msg92522#msg92522
date=1759409036]
I just assumed the police abroad would be able to handle the
chasing of their end since I have given his address.
[/quote]
No - the local Police won't be chasing anything for such a
'minor' matter. What country is it for reference?
When my brother-in-law (Lives in Singapore) was caught speeding
in the UK, just providing proof of licence and insurance simply
saw the Police drop the matter as they cannot realistically
pursue an overseas driver.
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