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#Post#: 8946--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 1, 2023, 5:10 pm
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That is the gist of it, if a PCN is issued then a regulatory
sign is needed but we need to see the PCN in full
#Post#: 8965--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 1, 2023, 6:38 pm
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Photos:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/7UE6hR5.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/CPsm6aZ.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yW39PTI.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/6Ie2AeK.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hhl6kcx.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/5tJixt5.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/sAsirxZ.jpg
It's section 6 of the Essex Act 1987 (PMB I've fixed the link in
your post above to make it clickable), and this is the relevant
part:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kfrwdh4.png
Two points arise: the sign needs to be in a conspicuous position
(which appears to be a higher standard than the standard of
adequacy created by LATOR, conspicuous seems aking to the "bound
to be seen" test that applies in private parking cases), and if
the land is part of the highway then the sign needs to be a
TSRGD compliant sign, which the one seen here most definitely
isn't.
So we have plenty to go on, are you the registered keeper and do
you have the V5c?
#Post#: 10070--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: November 13, 2023, 9:48 am
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Here is the PCN in full.
Still not paid as I believe I have a case with the help from
everyone on here
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 10075--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 13, 2023, 10:52 am
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Can't remember the last time we had an 'Essex Act' issue.
OP, although it's a local Act, it's still covered by the Traffic
Management Act.
So, 2 issues for me:
How must the offence be enforced;
What conditions apply to the the prohibition?
Parking contraventions outside Greater London
4(1)Outside Greater London there is a parking contravention in
relation to a vehicle if it is stationary in circumstances in
which any of the offences listed below is committed.
(2)The offences are—
......
f)an offence under section 6(6) of the Essex Act 1987 (c. xx) of
leaving a vehicle on any land in contravention of a prohibition
under that section (prohibitions relating to verges and certain
other land adjoining or accessible from highway);
Note that it's 6(6) which provides that:
(6) A person who contravenes .....a notice displayed under this
section [6] shall be guilty of an offence.
The council may therefore issue PCNs under the TMA.
The Act also defines 'notice' for the purposes of 6(6) as
follows:
5(5) '..a notice..shall be a traffic sign'.
Section 2, Interpretation, defines a 'traffic sign' as having
the meaning given by Section 64 of the Act[Road Traffic
Regulation Act].
The 'relevant authority' [Secretary of State] has made
regulations under the 1984 Act[Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions, 2016] under which the only traffic sign
permitted to convey the prohibition in the Essex Act is given at
Schedule 5 to these Regulations(and Schedule 7 for repeater
signs). In both cases these are circular with a red border
incorporating the black image of a vehicle on a white
background.
The only sign in the vicinity of the location is shown in the
enclosed photo. It is not a 'Traffic Sign' as defined and
therefore not a 'notice' as required and consequently the
council has failed to sign the prohibition lawfully and the PCN
must be cancelled.
#Post#: 10077--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 13, 2023, 11:24 am
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Seems worth taking wot HCA writ above.... from after 2 the
offences are...
to the end.
Head it with
Dear Sirs
REf PCN XXX?
The Contravention Did Not Occur
And end it with Hugs and Kisses (or your preferred closing)
It's got all that is needed
#Post#: 10256--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 14, 2023, 5:52 pm
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Talk about plenty of grounds: the PCN wrongly gives the payment
deadlines from the date of service rather than the date of the
contravention, and there's an 0870 number on the back of the PCN
that opens the same avenue we used in Paul Bateman v Derbyshire
County Council (DJ00037-2209, 10 November 2022)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=11TEzgfHFInCTo-JTFFtWJ8pbIXnMvJCd.
For now I'd just go with DancingDad's suggestion.
#Post#: 10396--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: November 16, 2023, 1:26 pm
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Thank you. I am just preparing my challenge as the notice to
owner would be due after today. I’m just having a look at the
traffic act at the points raised just so I know where they are
for my own reference.
I can’t see to find “ Note that it's 6(6) which provides that:
(6) A person who contravenes .....a notice displayed under this
section [6] shall be guilty of an offence”
Am I reading the document wrong?
#Post#: 10541--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 18, 2023, 2:00 pm
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--- Quote from: mfarrell link ---
>
> Am I reading the document wrong?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure what document you're reading, but the reference to
"(6) A person who contravenes .....a notice displayed under this
section [6] shall be guilty of an offence" is a reference to the
Essex Act 1987 which is here:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1987/20/pdfs/ukla_19870020_en.pdf
As above, you should just use DancindDad's draft for now.
#Post#: 11392--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: November 27, 2023, 1:02 pm
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Hi all,
Update on appeal:
I recieved my notice to owner and made a representation.
Unsurprisingly it was rejected. I have attached my notice of
rejection and my representation. Please let me know if i should
resubmit the same to the tribunal or add.
Few points i took away from the rejection. 1 is it normal to
reapply the discount period? admission of guilt in the hope i
would pay? 2 - Did not address the poor sign conditions. Failed
to comment on any of my photos. 3 although they comment a post
was 10 meters away from my car, on the photo i sent of my
drivers view, you can not see it as it blends into the tree
trunk, and like i said i did not pass it. 4 - No comments to the
points made about the essex act legal requirements
Please let me know your thoughts, thank you :)
Representation:
[i]"I believe the penalty is unjust, and I kindly request a
thorough review based on inadequate signage and a lack of proper
notice.
Upon entering Marine Avenue from Ronald Hill Grove, I parked
approximately a quarter into the road outside number 53. At this
point, I had not passed any signs advising me of any parking
restrictions. I walked back towards Ronald Hill Grove to
Westleigh School without encountering any signage that would
indicate parking restrictions. It was only upon returning to my
car 30 minutes later that I discovered the PCN.
During my inspection of the road afterwards, I observed that the
signs indicating parking restrictions began halfway down the
road. Furthermore, several signs in the road were defaced and
unreadable. Google street view shows these signs in the same
defaced state two years ago, which demonstrates a consistent
lack of upkeep and a failure to ensure the signs are clear. As
per my understanding of the Essex Act, there were no signs upon
entry to the road advising of any restrictions in place. I have
attached photos as evidence to support these claims.
In accordance with the Essex Act 1987, I would like to draw your
attention to the following points:
Section 6(6) states that a person who contravenes a notice
displayed under this section shall be guilty of an offence.
The Act defines 'notice' for the purposes of 6(6) as a traffic
sign (Section 5(5)).
Section 2 (Interpretation) defines a 'traffic sign' as having
the meaning given by Section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation
Act.
The relevant authority (Secretary of State) has made regulations
under the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions,
2016, under which the only traffic sign permitted to convey the
prohibition in the Essex Act is a circular sign with a red
border incorporating the black image of a vehicle on a white
background.
The only sign in the vicinity of the location is shown in the
enclosed photo. It does not meet the criteria of a 'Traffic
Sign' as defined, and therefore, it is not a 'notice' as
required. Consequently, the council has failed to sign the
prohibition lawfully, and I believe the penalty charge should be
revoked.
Photo appendix:
Photo 1 – Entrance to Marine Avenue that I used. This photo
shows there are no signs to indicate any restrictions on grass
verges.
Photo 2 – This photo shows another angle of the entrance to
Marine Avenue, again there are no signs to indicate any
restrictions on grass verges.
Photo 3 – This photo shows my view/driver's view going down the
road where I parked on the right at the telegraph pole, again no
visible signs to indicate any restrictions on grass verges.
Photo 4 & 5– This photo shows a signs further down the road that
I did not pass. These signs has been completely defaced and is
unreadable.
In light of the inadequate signage and the council's failure to
comply with legal requirements, the penalty charge should be
revoked"[/i]
Photo of my drivers view:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/RCG1qCrx/Photo-3.jpg
Notice of rejection 1:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/kX1wHV8v/IMG-1274.jpg
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/2jx049SJ/IMG-1275.png
#Post#: 11396--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 27, 2023, 1:14 pm
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Register your appeal now.
Grounds:
Procedural impropriety;
Contravention did not occur.
Add ...further representations will be made once the authority's
evidence has been reviewed.
Your appeal cannot withdraw your reps, they're part of the
evidence. But what you can do is to draw out and emphasise the
relevant issues and add matters which arise from their NOR.
We'll do this once you've registered your appeal.
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