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#Post#: 8816--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: October 31, 2023, 8:42 am
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Hello all,
I am hoping you can steer me in the right direction on a recent
PCN i recieved for parking on a grass verge. I did not see any
signs warning me of this and on inspection of the road after the
ticket, i noticed a lack in signage and even a compleatly
defaced sign.
I have appealed informally within the 14 day 50% discount but
this was rejected without even taking my points into
consideration or providing any explaination.
The ticket was issued in Marine Avenue in Leigh on sea. I pulled
into this road from Ronald Hill Grove and parked outside number
53 as seen here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/gLBzN6JmJRt4ZwAZ7
I
then walked back up towards Ronald Hill grove.
I did not pass any signs to warn me of the restriction. No sign
on entry, and the first sign is further down the road which i
did not pass. If you look on google maps you can see one sign is
also defaced 2 years ago and still like that now!
I have looked at other roads that have grass verge restrictions
and there are signs as you enter or on the first verge you pass.
Is there any regualtion on how close a sign needs to be on the
enterance to the road?
my PCN is here:
HTML https://postimg.cc/n9xHfbBN
PCN OS13882827
My appeal read as:
"On the day in question, I entered Marine Avenue from Ronald
Hill Grove and parked my vehicle outside of number 53. During my
journey into Marine Avenue, I did not encounter any signs that
informed me of any parking restrictions on the grass verges.
Additionally, there were no signs on the grass verges themselves
up to the point where I parked. This lack of visible signage
gave me no reason to believe that I was in violation of any
parking regulations.
I also want to emphasize that, as I left my vehicle and walked
back up to Ronald Hill Grove, I did not come across any signs
that would have alerted me to the parking restrictions in place.
The photo of the sign that was taken as part of the ticket
clearly shows a sign further down the road, which I did not see
at the time of parking.
In light of my appeal, I took it upon myself to inspect the area
after receiving the ticket. To my surprise, I discovered that
one of the signs was vandalized and, as a result, completely
unreadable. This further adds to the confusion and lack of
clarity regarding the parking restrictions in the area.
To support my appeal, I have attached a photo from Google Maps
that was taken approximately two years ago. This image clearly
shows the absence of any visible signs on the grass verges,
corroborating my assertion that the signage in the area is
unclear and insufficient to inform drivers of parking
restrictions.
#Post#: 8819--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 31, 2023, 9:56 am
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Please post up their rejection.
#Post#: 8820--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: October 31, 2023, 10:01 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Please post up their rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here is the rejection
HTML https://postimg.cc/5655R3p6
#Post#: 8825--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 31, 2023, 11:22 am
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Having had a look on GSV, I think you have a good case on
totally inadequate signage of the restriction. However, you'll
have to take the double-or-quits gamble of waiting for the
Notice to Owner, submitting reps again, then, when refused, take
them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
#Post#: 8828--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: October 31, 2023, 11:43 am
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Since when does a blue notice referencing a local bylaw be
classed as a Traffic Sign?
It isn't within TSRGD and I doubt that it has been authorised by
Sec of State when perfectly good signs to prohibit are available
within TSRGD
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made
Part 3 item 7.
I even doubt that the bylaw is sufficient to allow enforcement
under TMA 2004 though a TRO may be present.
I also suspect they are wrong n charging higher level penalty.
Code 64 is specifically for Essex only but Patrol do not show
higher or lower
This seems a right pig's ear.
#Post#: 8871--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: mfarrell
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:32 am
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I recon i may appeal this then. If i go to the tribunal i wont
get a CCJ or anything will I?
Also will i need to appear in person or have a telephone
conversation?
#Post#: 8876--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:47 am
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As long as you follow the appeal process properly (and pay up if
you lose), it's impossible for a PCN to end in a CCJ. The most
that will ever be at stake is the non-discount penalty, which in
this case is £70.
#Post#: 8877--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: allondon
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:49 am
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Traffic Court offers online submissions AFAIK.
#Post#: 8908--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: November 1, 2023, 9:59 am
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From what i can see of the sign they are relying on an a local
act of parliament (the essex act 1987 s8 )
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1987/20/pdfs/ukla_19870020_en.pdf
If this is so then a PCN is not the correct route they may take.
It is a criminal matter
But please post the whole of the PCN so we can be sure
#Post#: 8938--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 1, 2023, 4:43 pm
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I'm certainly querying the details of what they believe allows
them to penalise under TMA2004
Even if it does derive from the Essex Act, that defines Traffic
Signs as per S64, RTRA 1984
Which comes back to TSRGD, at the time I believe TSRGD 1981
would be in force and guess what, No Parking on verges signs
were included in that.
Which comes back to the sign that they are relying on is not a
Traffic Sign and I seriously doubt that it would have been
authorised in that format.
Edit
Ah well, bit of research and the Essex Act is included within
Schedule 7(4) of TMA, specifically Section 30 (which seems to be
harbour land) and S6(6) which is grass verges
(f)an offence under section 6(6) of the Essex Act 1987 (c. xx)
of leaving a vehicle on any land in contravention of a
prohibition under that section (prohibitions relating to verges
and certain other land adjoining or accessible from highway);
But it still requires and is stated within the section, a proper
Traffic Sign
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