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#Post#: 92052--------------------------------------------------
Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: September 29, 2025, 12:23 pm
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Hi All,
These PCNs are becoming more common in the family!
My Sister-in-law took a left turn in a restricted pedestrian
zone.
But I feel it would be impossible that she could have read the
signage - I feel the council need to improve the signage,
preventing motorists from into this trap.
Can we argue about signage not being able to be read in advance,
especially when it is in front of another sign?
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-5zu4-5Wgo
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Ig8Dzj3.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/WRleZ9m.jpeg
#Post#: 92061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: shock999
Date: September 29, 2025, 1:09 pm
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Redbridge almost always have an advance sign earlier on the road
that the car drove on, its worth finding out how it looks.
#Post#: 92088--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: September 29, 2025, 2:26 pm
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Thank you - I'll get her to go and have a look
#Post#: 92396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: October 1, 2025, 11:28 am
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Apologies looks like Imgur are leaving the UK lol
I've put up the links again via Flickr
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54825625480_6650befb21_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwKEmQ1
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwKEmQ
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54824447447_b79a45fd9f_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDCaV2
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDCaV
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
#Post#: 92398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: October 1, 2025, 11:39 am
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So, there were signs in place.
But sister in law said she came out of New Road and took a right
and left onto Holmwood Road where she got the ticket.
The sign to turn in wasn’t visible. They may say you can see the
signs from across the road but maybe we can argue
a) The sign is not visible and
b) Being a busy road, initially taking a right (see last pic) -
concentrating on getting onto the main road rather than looking
for the sign on road to then doing that left...
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54824462297_f373cb1b92_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDGzXA
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDGzX
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54824462292_cff127b04b_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDGzSB
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwDGzS
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54825578053_cda95afa76_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwKqg8C
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2rwKqg8
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
#Post#: 93306--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: October 7, 2025, 6:07 pm
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So hes written up this response - will this be ok to send off?
-------------------
Dear Council,
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice. I request that you cancel it on the grounds due to
inadequate and misleading signage, and because it was not
reasonably possible for a driver to identify or comply with the
restriction from my approach.
⸻
1. Background and route taken
On 11/09/25, I exited New Road and turned right onto Green Lane,
intending shortly after to turn left into Holmwood Road, as
indicated on the attached annotated map.
This route is a common one for local drivers leaving New Road
and joining Green Lane. However, the advance warning sign for
the “restricted pedestrian zone” on Holmwood Road is positioned
facing vehicles already travelling along Green Lane, not those
emerging from New Road.
As such, the sign is not visible to drivers turning right from
New Road, since attention at that point must be focused on
safely merging with the heavy traffic on Green Lane. The sign’s
orientation and position make it impossible to see or read
before beginning the left turn into Holmwood Road.
⸻
2. Inadequate / misoriented signage
The only visible signs indicating the restriction are on the
entrance to Holmwood Road itself, and only become apparent as a
driver is in the process of making the left turn.
By that stage, stopping or reversing to avoid entering would
create a safety hazard due to following traffic and Green Lane’s
busy flow.
According to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions (TSRGD) and London Tribunals precedent, signage must
provide adequate advance warning that gives a driver a fair
opportunity to comply. In this case, no such advance warning was
visible to me.
3. Focus on safety and reasonable conduct
Green Lane is a busy main road with constant vehicle and
pedestrian traffic. When turning right from New Road, my
attention was appropriately directed toward ensuring it was safe
to merge and to avoid oncoming traffic.
It would have been unreasonable—and dangerous—to divert
attention away from traffic conditions in order to search for
signs positioned for a different direction of approach.
My manoeuvre was made cautiously and safely, and any failure to
comply was entirely due to the poor placement of signage, not
willful disregard of restrictions.
5. Conclusion and request
For the reasons above—particularly the lack of visible advance
signage for traffic emerging from New Road and the
safety-critical nature of that junction—I therefore request that
the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
-----------------------------------------
#Post#: 93307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 7, 2025, 6:47 pm
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Your photos of the advance signs need to be such as to show them
as an approaching motorist would see them, because the essential
argument here is the adequacy of the signage. Councils hava a
duty under Regulation 18 (1)(a) of the The Local Authorities’
Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
to place adequate signage advising motorists of the restrictions
imposed by the traffic order. Clearly here there are doubt as to
whether they have done that, but you must present the strongest
argument you can to an adjudicator. Yes, an adjudicator, because
the council will reject your reps like night follows day. Why ?
Because they know that refusing reps means >95% of PCN
recipients then just cough up. The only forum for to test the
council and your arguments is London Tribunals, but
unfortunately, if you take the council there, the full PCN
penalty is always in play, no discount.
So if you are convinced you are right, you have to stand your
ground and risk the full PCN penalty. If you lose, it's not a
free lunch for the council, because win or lose they have to pay
the adjudication fee and also prepare the evidence pack which is
a PITA for them.
#Post#: 93714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: zeezee
Date: October 11, 2025, 11:58 am
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Appreciate those honest facts - thank you
Here is another example of the turning and where the signage is
placed (1st one sideways), albeit taken in the evening.
With on-coming traffic and trying to turn, it would be virtually
impossible to see those signs...
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54847614369_f3e5aa6282_b.jpg
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2ryGmTB3a17d33b-8088-4a74-9dbb-054bbefefaae
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2ryGmTB
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
#Post#: 93764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Took a prohibited left turn in restricted pedestrian zone -
Redbridge :(
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 11, 2025, 5:53 pm
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--- Quote from: zeezee link ---
>
> Appreciate those honest facts - thank you
>
> Here is another example of the turning and where the signage
is placed (1st one sideways), albeit taken in the evening.
>
> With on-coming traffic and trying to turn, it would be
virtually impossible to see those signs...
>
> [img width=1023.9930419921875
height=767.9976806640625]
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54847614369_f3e5aa6282_b.jpg[/img]
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2ryGmTB3a17d33b-8088-4a74-9dbb-054bbefefaae
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2ryGmTB
by Zee Aze
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/203616810@N04/,
on Flickr
>
--- End Quote ---
A good photo because it shows what we now seem to be seeing all
over the place; signs at an absurd height, such that they are
unlikely to be noticed by drivers having to be constantly on the
alert for hazards as they drive in an urban area. These signs
are actually as high as the bedroom windows of the houses !! It
really is about time somebody called time on this insanity.
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