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#Post#: 91830--------------------------------------------------
Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or painted
over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 28, 2025, 10:41 am
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Hi All. Back again. This one is so frustrating.
The driver of the vehicle found a PCN attached to their
windscreen when returning from a restaurant in Ilford,
Redbridge. They do not visit this area very often so are unaware
of restrictions in and around this area. However, they did check
the signs upon entering the area and when parking.
PCN is shown at the bottom of this post. I've also uploaded all
images I'll be referring to on google drive - hope that is ok:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1z9bwDy9vIGG_g6Iz4Xxk2oU6r70GGKm7?usp=drive_link
The route the driver took to get to the parking space is shown
in map.jpg. All of this is recorded on dashcam, with additional
photos taken from the dashcam footage and from the passenger of
the car taking photos after the PCN was found.
The driver turned from Ilford Lane into Jersey Road. The signs
upon entry are obscured. All of the signs on jersey road are
also obscured, some of which are shown in the photos, but all
can be clearly seen in the dashcam footage. These are photos 1
to 5 in the google drive link.
The driver then turned left briefly onto Lowbrook Road and then
right into Paget Road - where the parking space is immediately
on the left after the double yellow lines.
The photo google street view.jpg shows what the parking
restriction sign should have looked like. But if you look at
photo 6 - driving into paget road.jpg, you can see that the sign
is facing in the wrong direction. Photo 7 - paget road sign.jpg
shows the sign from the other side and it is obscured. This is
next to the space the driver parked.
Photo 8 - paget road looking at lowbrook road.jpg shows the sign
located on Lowbrook Road opposite the parking space, which is
also obscured. Photo 9 - lowbrook road.jpg is a sign a little
further down on Lowbrook Road which is also obscured.
Point being none of the signs on approach to parking, at the
parking spot, or when walking away from the parking spot were
visible or legible. I dont have evidence of signs further along
Lowbrook Road, but the driver has confirmed that they were
obscured as well.
The PCN evidence the enforcement officer has uploaded shows a
clearly legible sign. This is photo 10 - PCN Evidence Photo.jpg.
However, I have located this sign on Google Street View and it
is quite some considerable distance down Paget Road. You can see
how far down in 11 - PCN Evidence Location.jpg. Unfortunately,
the driver did not go down there to verify this sign.
Google street view of sign taken photo of:
HTML https://tinyurl.com/2dnfhwwt
It's interesting the enforcement officer chose this sign to
photograph so far along. There is a sign closer to the parking
spot, which I am guessing was also obscured, so they did not
choose to use that as evidence. However, the driver has no
evidence of this and the location is quite far for them to go
back and check.
The evidence photos the enforcement officer uploaded
conveniently fail to show the sign right next to the parked
vehicle, nor the signs opposite on Lowbrook Road. This seems to
me to be deliberate.
EDIT - in fact, the last photo taken of the vehicle is at
13:00:46. The photo taken of the legible sign is at 13:03:59.
The enforcement officer had to walk for over 3 minutes to find a
legible sign to take a photo of.
After finding the PCN, the driver stopped to speak to an
enforcement officer who was nearby (he may not have been the
same person who issued the ticket). He confirmed that the signs
being obscured were known to Redbridge Council and they they
would be sending someone to replace them. Why they are issuing
tickets whilst the signs are obscured seems very underhand to
me!
Please could you advise on whether:
1. This is contestable and likelihood of being successful
2. How to challenge the ticket
Thank you!
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Wvn352v.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3hVB2sm.jpeg
#Post#: 91853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:22 pm
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Not sure why you've redacted Reg.mark and PCN number? Please
provide them.
#Post#: 91854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Won't that allow anyone to then potentially submit an appeal.
Not sure why anyone would do that but feels wrong to put the
information on a public forum. Happy to pm the details if that's
a more secure way to do it.
#Post#: 91858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think I can safely say that in some 50,000 posts since this
forum started disclosing this info has not caused ay probs.
#Post#: 91862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. Image below.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ObGqDa7.jpeg
#Post#: 91884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 28, 2025, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've marked out the location of all of the signs around the
vicinity of the parking spot.
There are four signs on Paget Road itself - each numbered on the
lamppost on Google Street View. The CEO has taken a picture of
number 4.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/zsGgj0f.jpeg
The entry from Ilford Lane onto Jersey Road has signs saying
"Permit holders parking only past this point", which I can see
on Google Street View from Sep 2024 (albeit, they do have some
spray painted on them even back then!). I understand the council
can rely on these signs alone to enforce tickets (i.e. the signs
on the street are not technically required). However, as you can
see from this image from my dashcam, these signs were totally
illegible, especially whilst driving.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/AB4RwzX.jpeg
#Post#: 91959--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 29, 2025, 6:27 am
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This is a permit parking area and their evidence just shows you
on the road and a repeater sign which as you say isn't anywhere
near your car.
A PPA must have clear entry signs. The repeater signs are only
there to remind you you're in a PPA.
This area seems to be one giant PPA or a load of separate PPAs.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/S7X9NbB5/Screenshot-2025-09-29-at-12-31-58.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/NndnBJGL/Screenshot-2025-09-29-at-12-23-10.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/kgs2tVms/Screenshot-2025-09-29-at-12-23-18.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/nN0qzBjq/Screenshot-2025-09-29-at-12-23-29.png
#Post#: 91970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 29, 2025, 6:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How should I proceed? So far, I only have the PCN which was
attached to the windscreen. Do I need to submit an informal
appeal at this stage or should I wait for something in the post?
I've also pulled out a number of tribunal cases for this area
which referenced obscured signage. I think all were refused -
but they make reference to the signage on entrance to the zone,
which in my case is also obscured.
London tribunal links:
Jersey Road:
---------------
2240159591
2240321124
Lowbrook Road:
---------------
224058052A
2250069032
Example appeal decision (224058052A):
--- Quote ---
>
> The allegation in this case is that the vehicle was parked
without payment of the parking charge. The Appellant criticises
the quality of the signage. He says that there were no road
markings and that time plates had been vandalised with black
paint. He has provided video footage as supporting evidence.
>
> The Enforcement Authority’s case is that the vehicle was
parked in a Restricted Parking Zone. In a Restricted Parking
Zone there is no requirement for road markings or roadside
signs. The requirement is that entry point signs indicate
restrictions to the motorist as he/she enters the zone. There
may also be ‘repeater’ signs within the zone but the motorist is
deemed to be on notice of the restrictions within the zone as
he/she passes the entry point sign.
>
> The appeal fails for a number of reasons. Firstly, the signs
shown by the Appellant appear to be repeater signs which are not
legally necessary. Second, it is noticeable the Appellant did
not approach close to some of the signs which suggests they
could still be read through the paint. Thirdly, no motorist
should form the idea he can take advantage of such vandalism.
The motorist who parks at a location where he genuinely cannot
read the signage takes a chance and can have no reasonable
complaint if issued a PCN.
>
> I am satisfied the signage of restrictions was substantially
compliant, clear and adequate.
>
> Having considered all the evidence I am satisfied that the
contravention occurred and that the PCN was properly issued and
served. I am not satisfied that any exemption applies.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 91975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 29, 2025, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So for this adjudicator, it doesn't matter a damn whether
councils fail do their duty under Regulation 18 (1)(b) of the
The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and
Wales) Regulations 1996
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
#Post#: 92117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - Contravention Code 16. All signs obscured or
painted over
DIR By: fezster
Date: September 30, 2025, 2:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Can someone tell me what the sequence of events are after
receiving a PCN attached to a car?
1. Is a notice sent in the post?
2. Does the 14 day window start from the notice in post (or the
day the PCN was attached to the car)?
3. How many appeal stages there are?
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