DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 91824--------------------------------------------------
Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: syd16
Date: September 28, 2025, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi folks, my elderly father parked on a single yellow line on
6th August and displayed his blue badge. However, he received a
PCN since he parked during restricted hours as suggested by
nearby signage. He was issued a yellow ticket by an officer and
was displayed on the car window. My father duly obliged and paid
the PCN.
Some weeks later on 5th September he received a Notice to Owner
letter from Redbridge council saying he has not paid the PCN and
full payment was due. We saw that the PCN no. on the letter
(AF10903686) does not seem match the one which issued by the
civil enforcement officer (AF10903675). Unfortunately my dad
discarded the yellow ticket once paid so cannot fully confirm
this but I know you cannot pay a fine on the Redbridge website
if you don't get the details correct - you cannot pay for an
invalid PCN no. My father appealed with the payment screenshots
but the council rejected this saying payment was made but for a
different PCN. This is not the case however, it seems the
council have made a mistake on their end.
So they have given him the option to either appeal to London
Tribunals or pay the 'outstanding' amount of £80 within 14 days
after which the 'full' amount of £80 will become due! So they
seem to validate the initial payment towards this PCN but if he
paid on time this doesn't make sense.
To make matters even more complicated they mention another
random and different PCN no. in the letter.."As no payment has
been received for PCN AF10804083, it remains outstanding and
valid".
Any suggestions/recommendations on how to proceed? Thinking to
help my father appeal to London Tribunals.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/C5xHky7y/nto.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Vp0HZW3s/reply1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/fGK9XCmK/reply2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Y5YMbFj/bank.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/1G5hZGqP/receipt.jpg
#Post#: 91835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 28, 2025, 11:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please post up a Google Street View link.
So father parked on a single yellow during the proscribed hours
and displayed a Blue Badge.
What time did he park at?
Do you know if there were any yellow dashes on the kerb?
Yellow dashes would indicate a loading restriction applied.
#Post#: 91850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: syd16
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Google Street View link - click here
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5606507,0.0739478,3a,24y,231.23h,83.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_OoWklgeo09QUf4pv9IjjQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.649067614058566%26panoid%3D_OoWklgeo09QUf4pv9IjjQ%26yaw%3D231.23011480699117!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D.
The signage details are not clear on the link but you can see in
these photos taken by the officer there are parking restrictions
between 8am-6:30pm and he parked there around 1pm. No signs of
dashed yellow lines on the kerb just the single yellow line on
the road so he's fallen foul of the signage restrictions but
aren't the council wrong in asking for full payment when he has
already paid?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/pBXjCGPN/car1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/XfdVtNXj/car2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/chT0crTW/car3.jpg
#Post#: 91864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 28, 2025, 12:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you ask them to provide evidence on the PCN he paid.
Either there are two against his car, or he paid for somebody
else's PCN by mistake.
#Post#: 91892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 28, 2025, 7:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> I suggest you ask them to provide evidence on the PCN he paid.
Either there are two against his car, or he paid for somebody
else's PCN by mistake.
>
--- End Quote ---
And also ask for full details of the third PCN AF10804083,
which they say was not paid and is still outstanding.
PCNs AF10804083 and AF101903675 (the PCN the payment was applied
to) currently cannot be found on the Redbridge PCN portal.
AF10903686 is found but it says it's beyond the 28 day limit to
submit representations. There doesn't seem to be any accessible
photos. How did you get them?
However the elephant in the room is the Blue Badge. By virtue of
display of the BB father is entitled to a three hour exemption
from any yellow line restrictions, providing that there were no
loading restrictions in-force at the time of parking. The photos
don't seem to show any yellow kerb dashes so that means no
loading restrictions applied. You say father parked around 1pm
and the first photo is timed at 13:06:42. So the three hours has
barely started.
Is the sign in the photos on the same side of the road as where
father parked?
Was the car parked to the right or the left of the sign?
Why didn't you, or rather your father, mention the BB in the
formal representation against the Notice to Owner? Or did you?
Was the time on the BB clock set correctly? From the photos I
can just about make out that there is a clock but not the time
that's set. Do you have any clearer photos of the BB and clock
as displayed?
And yes the letter does seem to imply that £80 has been applied
against the PCN referenced in the NTO and at the top of the
Notice of Rejection. The amounts due if you lose at Adjudication
or if a Charge Certificate is issued are incorrect. They can
only be reconciled if a part payment of £80 has been applied.
#Post#: 91937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 29, 2025, 5:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The online payment demanded is £160 and you are in the 14 day
discount window they've reoffered so this is a ground for
lodging a tribunal appeal.
As said, when was the other PCN.
Also this live one is not for a loading restriction as that is a
code 02 so it is either the wrong contravention or it's a
non-restricted yellow line and there was an issue with the
clock.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kd5O6Q1.png
#Post#: 92048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: syd16
Date: September 29, 2025, 12:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> I suggest you ask them to provide evidence on the PCN he paid.
Either there are two against his car, or he paid for somebody
else's PCN by mistake.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, will ask them.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> And also ask for full details of the third PCN AF10804083,
which they say was not paid and is still outstanding.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sure, I'll request PCN details for the one I paid for and the
third one they randomly mentioned (AF108040830).
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> PCNs AF10804083 and AF101903675 (the PCN the payment was
applied to) currently cannot be found on the Redbridge PCN
portal.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes exactly, I couldn't find anything related to the paid one so
I feel they issued a PCN and it's linked to a PCN number
different to the issued one.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> AF10903686 is found but it says it's beyond the 28 day limit
to submit representations. There doesn't seem to be any
accessible photos. How did you get them?
>
--- End Quote ---
When you go to Pay for the PCN it shows photos.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> However the elephant in the room is the Blue Badge. By virtue
of display of the BB father is entitled to a three hour
exemption from any yellow line restrictions, providing that
there were no loading restrictions in-force at the time of
parking. The photos don't seem to show any yellow kerb dashes so
that means no loading restrictions applied. You say father
parked around 1pm and the first photo is timed at 13:06:42. So
the three hours has barely started.
>
> Is the sign in the photos on the same side of the road as
where father parked?
> Was the car parked to the right or the left of the sign?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes he hadn't parked there anywhere close to 3 hours, think he
received the ticket soon after he parked there. He was parked
right next to the sign so where you see the photos, the pole is
located in the middle part of the car so he was in between:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/7JfNjjVc/car3.jpg
The signage does say No Loading so would he be done for that?
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Why didn't you, or rather your father, mention the BB in the
formal representation against the Notice to Owner? Or did you?
>
--- End Quote ---
No the BB wasn't mentioned, my father paid the penalty initially
so this was considered a done matter, this representation was
made to challenge that he had already paid. The appeal just
mentioned that the PCN was already paid and screenshots were
provided of the bank transaction as proof. The council though
responded that he paid for another PCN and is unrelated ::)
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Was the time on the BB clock set correctly? From the photos I
can just about make out that there is a clock but not the time
that's set. Do you have any clearer photos of the BB and clock
as displayed?
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't have any clearer photos but he is sure it was done
correctly and hadn't parked longer than 3 hours.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> And yes the letter does seem to imply that £80 has been
applied against the PCN referenced in the NTO and at the top of
the Notice of Rejection. The amounts due if you lose at
Adjudication or if a Charge Certificate is issued are incorrect.
They can only be reconciled if a part payment of £80 has been
applied.
>
--- End Quote ---
Strangely when you go to pay for this they request £160 on the
portal but the letter states £80!
#Post#: 92049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: syd16
Date: September 29, 2025, 12:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> The online payment demanded is £160 and you are in the 14 day
discount window they've reoffered so this is a ground for
lodging a tribunal appeal.
>
> As said, when was the other PCN.
>
> Also this live one is not for a loading restriction as that is
a code 02 so it is either the wrong contravention or it's a
non-restricted yellow line and there was an issue with the
clock.
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kd5O6Q1.png
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks so many issues with this one it seems. What is the
strongest case for London Tribunal appeal?
#Post#: 92060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 29, 2025, 1:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The contravention on the PCN is incorrect. At least for PCN
AF10903686 and assuming the photos are applicable to that PCN.
That's why I asked where he was parked relative to the sign.
If father has encroached into the loading restriction then the
contravention should be 02 Parked or loading/unloading in a
restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading
restrictions are in force.
His Blue Badge wouldn't have provided any exemption.
However the above contravention is not alleged. It's 01a Parked
in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Father is entitled to a 3 hour exemption for parking on a yellow
line where no loading restrictions are in force. So this
contravention did not occur.
I would challenge and appeal on the basis that the alleged
contravention is incorrect.
Incidentally the suffix "a" in the contravention is for a
temporary traffic order which does not seem to be correct
either.
However I still think it would be useful to find out the
contravention, location and photos for PCN AF10903675, the PCN
that father's payment has been applied to according to the
receipt.
And likewise AF10804083 which the Council says hasn't been paid.
Judging by the serial number this might be an earlier PCN.
I think you're on your way to the London Tribunals to sort out
this mess.
#Post#: 92086--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - paid for PCN and council issued a new one
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 29, 2025, 2:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
All grounds can be raised with the tribunal but clearly they
have not offered you what they say in their rejection.
There is no close up pic of the parking clock or of any signage
relating to a temp traffic order so the contravention didn't
occur.
Either or both should see this off.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page